Gateway Mall Master Plan

jmedwick · PostJun 08, 2007#1012007-06-08T12:57+00:00

Proposal grows for new city treasure

By David Bonetti

POST-DISPATCH VISUAL ARTS CRITIC

06/08/2007

A $20 million urban sculpture garden with 20 or more works of art is being proposed for two grassy blocks of the Gateway Mall, which stretches from the Arch to Union Station.

The garden, a gift from the Gateway Foundation, would be the largest project in the organization's history of funding the enhancement of the urban environment. It also would be one of the biggest gifts in the city's history.

"This could be the kick-off project for a whole new vision of the Gateway Mall," said Rollin Stanley, the city's director of planning and urban design. "The garden will not be a static thing. There will be no fences, no gates. Everyone will be welcome. It will be a unique environment for public sculpture. I don't think there's anything else quite like it in the entire country."

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 08, 2007#1022007-06-08T13:29+00:00

Fantastic!!!

jmedwick · PostJun 08, 2007#1032007-06-08T13:40+00:00

Well at least the homeless and vagrants will have a choice of which underused and un-visited modern sculpture to pee on. Variety is important. Always peeing on the Serra Sculpture must get old, right?

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 08, 2007#1042007-06-08T13:47+00:00

JMedwick wrote:Well at least the homeless and vagrants will have a choice of which underused and un-visited modern sculpture to pee on. Variety is important. Always peeing on the Serra Sculpture must get old, right?

Hopefully, they will have the foresight to hire security guards.

I'm going to attend the public forum and see what they say.

publiceye · PostJun 08, 2007#1052007-06-08T14:42+00:00

From MayorSlay.com:

http://www.mayorslay.com/desk/display.asp?deskID=723

shinpickle · PostJun 08, 2007#1062007-06-08T14:46+00:00

how about some renderings ... something ...

this is uber-prime real-estate, if they don't have a world class idea, I would rather they sell the land for commercial development, use the proceeds for their many many many other obligations, and we can all get on with our lives.

Expat · PostJun 08, 2007#1072007-06-08T15:07+00:00

It sounds like a brilliant plan. I can't wait to get more details.

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 08, 2007#1082007-06-08T15:16+00:00

shinpickle wrote:how about some renderings ... something ...

this is uber-prime real-estate, if they don't have a world class idea, I would rather they sell the land for commercial development, use the proceeds for their many many many other obligations, and we can all get on with our lives.

You make the assumption that someone would want to build a building there.

matt · PostJun 08, 2007#1092007-06-08T15:19+00:00

Wonderful idea. I'm guessing it will turn out like a mini botanical garden with more sculpture. If the art doesn't eat up too much of the $20 million (you know how those artists are), the infrastructure should be great.

Wouldn't you guess a private restauranteur would finance/build the cafe?

tge-atw · PostJun 08, 2007#1102007-06-08T15:20+00:00

Fat chance. The city will never sell this land. Ever. But, development AROUND it. Go to the meeting on Monday when the Master Plan is revealed and submit your ideas. The mall has been cursed by bad planning and apathy for too many years. It is time to get something going.

stlmike · PostJun 08, 2007#1112007-06-08T15:22+00:00

As usual, the discussion forum for this on StlToday has a lot of hostility.

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 08, 2007#1122007-06-08T15:48+00:00

TGE-ATW wrote:Fat chance. The city will never sell this land. Ever. But, development AROUND it. Go to the meeting on Monday when the Master Plan is revealed and submit your ideas. The mall has been cursed by bad planning and apathy for too many years. It is time to get something going.

See, this is the part that gets me. Ideas for what? Anyone is free to build buildings on just about any parcel of land around the mall. It doesn't take any ideas, or anyones permision. All you need is someone who wants to build a building. And apparently, they aren't out there right now.

markofucity · PostJun 08, 2007#1132007-06-08T15:58+00:00

this is a really - REALLY good idea. And it wont cost the city much of anything .... God I hope this passes

migueltejada · PostJun 08, 2007#1142007-06-08T16:32+00:00

markofucity wrote:this is a really - REALLY good idea. And it wont cost the city much of anything .... God I hope this passes

? You're joking right?

I'm with Jmed. This is an awful idea. MORE public art? How much more unused and unappreciated crap do we need in our city? I give it less than 24 hours from installation before it's covered in graffiti.

the central scrutinizer · PostJun 08, 2007#1152007-06-08T16:34+00:00

migueltejada wrote:
markofucity wrote:this is a really - REALLY good idea. And it wont cost the city much of anything .... God I hope this passes

? You're joking right?

I'm with Jmed. This is an awful idea. MORE public art? How much more unused and unappreciated crap do we need in our city? I give it less than 24 hours from installation before it's covered in graffiti.

Solution - let's never put up any public art anywhere! That way it can never be covered in graffiti.

markofucity · PostJun 08, 2007#1162007-06-08T17:02+00:00

we need to keep it secure - no doubt .... and it can be done ... how much could it possibly cost to keep five or six guards on the mall .... 24 hours a day

arch city · PostJun 08, 2007#1172007-06-08T17:40+00:00

Great idea. Millennium Park in Chicago draws a lot people. With regards to the St. Louis proposal, I hope they renovate the east parcels and existing public spaces and fountains of the Gateway Mall as well.

This could be a winner. As long as the art is interesting (unlike the Serra sculpture), well-placed, well landscaped and lit, I think this might fly.

In regards to security, the famed-Fat Man On A Horse in Clayton, of all places, was vandalized two or three times. For a sculpture park downtown, there are too many places/buildings to place cameras in order to help prevent vandalism. The city could definitely increase patrols by city police.

Overall, I think this is great. St. Louis, I believe, already has the second or third largest sculpture park in the country in Laumeier, which is a nationally-respected sculpture park.

For St. Louis to pioneer something like this for an urban downtown area would be great - just make it great!!

wheelscomp · PostJun 08, 2007#1182007-06-08T17:54+00:00

I think this can be cool only if we get something in similar proportions to this...

If we want to emulate chicago, then lets reallly emulate CHICAGO.

shinpickle · PostJun 08, 2007#1192007-06-08T17:57+00:00

the proposed site is a valley between huge buildings. i would think little dinky sculptures would seem like vastly out of proportion with the architectural sculptures that tower around them. if they're planning something big & world class, well lets see it.. but it sounds like they want a rotating selection of smaller stuff..

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Anyone is free to build buildings on just about any parcel of land around the mall.

there is no vacant space surrounding the mall. theses blocks of the mall are surrounded on all sides by established office buildings, holding 10,000++ office workers. mid-rise spilt-use residential/retail would be ideal here, and actually make money instead of spending it - why not cater to the ppl who are already living & working downtown!

there are plenty of places to eat downtown, we dont need gov't subsidized ones!

and best case scenario, the mall is still deserted in the winter. what the mall desperately needs is humanity (that isn't homeless). the mall ceased being a mall when 1 gateway center was built, bring on the residential.

debaliviere · PostJun 08, 2007#1202007-06-08T18:02+00:00

I've always strongly supported new construction on the Gateway Mall, but I'm going to reserve judgement until I see more of the plans, hopefully on Monday at the open house.

A few thoughts:

A sculpture park might work better on the sections of the Mall west of Tucker.

I'm curious to see what $20 million buys these days in terms of sculpture.

I like the sound of integrating some sort of outdoor dining/cafe into the design.

doug · PostJun 08, 2007#1212007-06-08T18:02+00:00

How about this: destroy the mall and building mixed use towers of residential, retail, and office? We do not need green space with our current deflated density!

wheelscomp · PostJun 08, 2007#1222007-06-08T18:05+00:00

I know this has been discussed here before, but Ive always agreed that the mall would make a great location for an urban ice rink like Rock Center in NYC

Just imagine the Municipal Courts building is 30 Rock, add in some of the "imaginative sculptures" they plan to put in, and we would have a very nice gathering spot (in the winter).

jmedwick · PostJun 08, 2007#1232007-06-08T18:07+00:00

^ Think this last point is a very important part of the equation. On its own, given the density downtown, I doubt whether many would flock to the modern art. I mean, we see how well that plan worked just by looking at the Serra Sculpture and the scattered modern sculpture elsewhere on the mall. Combined with good design and most importantly multiple restaurants and kiosks (not more of the City supported monopoly crap like we have seen on the landing with the Casino) the blocks might start to generate enough pedestrian traffic on their own to make them feel safe and less deserted. We will see what happens. However I am very confident that without some restaurants and retail kiosks this will be a colossal failure.

debaliviere · PostJun 08, 2007#1242007-06-08T18:10+00:00

wheelscomp wrote:I know this has been discussed here before, but Ive always agreed that the mall would make a great location for an urban ice rink like Rock Center in NYC

Just imagine the Municipal Courts building is 30 Rock, add in some of the "imaginative sculptures" they plan to put in, and we would have a very nice gathering spot (in the winter).

I don't know if you got to visit the temporary skating rink that was installed next to Gateway One in 2000, but it was great - and quite popular!

Expat · PostJun 08, 2007#1252007-06-08T18:12+00:00

There is an ice rink surrounded by a sculpture park on the mall in DC. It is a lively place in the winter.

Gateway Mall Master Plan

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