Funding for the Arch Grounds and Downtown Improvements

gary kreie · PostFeb 02, 2011#12011-02-02T14:53+00:00

Now that there is a plan, the next big step is funding. What is a fair allocation of the costs of the plan? Here are some suggestions for funds:

Dept of Transportation: Lid over the highway, access roads
Dept of Interior: Museum, Landscaping, Arch grounds, East Side Pavillion.
New taxing district for St. Louis City and County: Sales tax for 5 years only to fund proposed Kiener plaza improvements, Gateway Mall, and Chouteau Lake.
State of Missouri: MoDot -- any road, bicycle, train improvements required by the plan.
City of St. Louis: Local street and sidewalk changes changes.
Bi-State: Access across the river -- Gondola / walkway
State of Illinois: The other East Side improvments, Route 3.
Private Foundations: - lighting, fountains, museum exhibits
Fund Raising campaign from individuals: -- dontation campaign by the Park Service. Friends of the Arch.
Naming Rights: While the park service may not like it, naming rights of some portions of Kiener Plaza, Beer Garden, Children's Carousel/fountains, Gondolas, Exhibit halls in the Museum, and outdoor amphitheater.
Parking Garages downtown: Let them bid to become the official Arch Parking garage. They will raise prices and pass on to the public, but so do food vendors at stadiums when they win.
Hotels Zone Tax: for hotels and restaurants closest to the Arch grounds. Their business will increase and the project should fairly get a portion of those profits.
Increased User Fees: Users of the Arch Grounds can pay back some of the cost through increased user fees.

the central scrutinizer · PostFeb 02, 2011#22011-02-02T16:14+00:00

I'm pretty sure the people building this know where to look for funds.

gary kreie · PostFeb 02, 2011#32011-02-02T16:23+00:00

the central scrutinizer wrote:I'm pretty sure the people building this know where to look for funds.

There was scant evidence of that at the presentation last week. They said they were counting on earmarks, which are now not going to happen. Its good to hear that you have so much confidence in the people building this to know just where to look to secure the funding. Let us know the basis of your confidence, if you don't mind.

The media only focused on the cost, and how we cannot afford this. So what will the breakdown of the sources for the $578 million be. I started to propose percentages for each source that I thought would be fair. I'd like to see your presumed breakdown.

the central scrutinizer · PostFeb 02, 2011#42011-02-02T16:51+00:00

gary kreie wrote:
the central scrutinizer wrote:I'm pretty sure the people building this know where to look for funds.
There was scant evidence of that at the presentation last week. They said they were counting on earmarks, which are now not going to happen. Its good to hear that you have so much confidence in the people building this to know just where to look to secure the funding. Let us know the basis of your confidence, if you don't mind.

Yes, MVVA has never done anything like this, and has no idea on where to look for funding sources. I know - I bet they'll look at some Internet forums to get ideas!

gary kreie wrote:The media only focused on the cost, and how we cannot afford this. So what will the breakdown of the sources for the $578 million be. I started to propose percentages for each source that I thought would be fair. I'd like to see your presumed breakdown.

I'll pass.

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 02, 2011#52011-02-02T16:59+00:00

^ Perhaps you can give an example? How was MVVA's Brooklyn Bridge Park funded?

the central scrutinizer · PostFeb 02, 2011#62011-02-02T18:04+00:00

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Perhaps you can give an example? How was MVVA's Brooklyn Bridge Park funded?

Call MVVA and ask them.

gone corporate · PostFeb 02, 2011#72011-02-02T18:15+00:00

Gary: Let me add in that I'm sure numerous fundraisers will be involved. I'd look to private foundations that support Saint Louis as well as those which support national parks. I'd bet a good amount of wealthy retirees nationwide will be contacted, seeking out a "legacy" donation from some major estates. Locally, I half-expect professional political fundraisers to call their primary donors, both sides of the aisle, and especially by those who don't work for candidates in the 2012 cycle.

I'd also anticipate that many events will have facilities set up for random attendee giving. Taste of StL would be a great target; so would the Clayton Art Fest. Ideally, they could work with Square technology to go for credit card donors on-site. Some time soon, I'm sure we'll all be asked for a couple bucks to chip in.

The bulk will come from Federal allocations, with municipal bond sales in support. How the Feds split up who pays for what is beyond my comprehension, but your assessment seems sound. The munis will include General Obligation bonds for the entirety of the site and Revenue bonds for cash-generating sub-projects, such as the goldola run. Should "naming rights" be awarded/sold, I'd think they'd be on the non-Federal projects, meaning all those in Kiener Plaza. Perhaps the gondola could be "named", but I'm doubtful.

CS: Remember that MVVA will act as the designer and lead architects, but not as the fundraisers. That obligation goes to the City-Arch-River 2015 organization itself. That said, look for much of this fundraising to include C-A-R building itself a foundation for the long-term care, maintenance, and operations of the revamped Arch grounds, i.e. all that will be new to the parksite.

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 02, 2011#82011-02-02T19:39+00:00

the central scrutinizer wrote:
Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Perhaps you can give an example? How was MVVA's Brooklyn Bridge Park funded?
Call MVVA and ask them.

Thanks again for adding to the collective knowledge on this forum.

dredger · PostFeb 02, 2011#92011-02-02T20:09+00:00

gary kreie wrote:Now that there is a plan, the next big step is funding. What is a fair allocation of the costs of the plan? Here are some suggestions for funds:

Dept of Transportation: Lid over the highway, access roads
Dept of Interior: Museum, Landscaping, Arch grounds, East Side Pavillion.
New taxing district for St. Louis City and County: Sales tax for 5 years only to fund proposed Kiener plaza improvements, Gateway Mall, and Chouteau Lake.
State of Missouri: MoDot -- any road, bicycle, train improvements required by the plan.
City of St. Louis: Local street and sidewalk changes changes.
Bi-State: Access across the river -- Gondola / walkway
State of Illinois: The other East Side improvments, Route 3.
Private Foundations: - lighting, fountains, museum exhibits
Fund Raising campaign from individuals: -- dontation campaign by the Park Service. Friends of the Arch.
Naming Rights: While the park service may not like it, naming rights of some portions of Kiener Plaza, Beer Garden, Children's Carousel/fountains, Gondolas, Exhibit halls in the Museum, and outdoor amphitheater.
Parking Garages downtown: Let them bid to become the official Arch Parking garage. They will raise prices and pass on to the public, but so do food vendors at stadiums when they win.
Hotels Zone Tax: for hotels and restaurants closest to the Arch grounds. Their business will increase and the project should fairly get a portion of those profits.
Increased User Fees: Users of the Arch Grounds can pay back some of the cost through increased user fees.

Good List, I do think you miss one option available to downtown,

A Transportation Development District, TDD. I think it is a funding tool appropriate in order for downtown to go forward in the upcoming political reality of funding. Tt could bring in a reliable funding source to back a bond that could address street changes/improvemnents as well as the lid. Would it be the best use of a Downtown TDD? I think that is debateable considering a fixed trolley/streetcar is anohter viable development for downtown.

zun1026 · PostFeb 02, 2011#102011-02-02T20:55+00:00

the central scrutinizer wrote:
Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Perhaps you can give an example? How was MVVA's Brooklyn Bridge Park funded?
Call MVVA and ask them.

Is MVVA even in charge of finding the funds for this project?

gone corporate · PostFeb 02, 2011#112011-02-02T21:02+00:00

zun1026 wrote:
the central scrutinizer wrote:
Alex Ihnen wrote:^ Perhaps you can give an example? How was MVVA's Brooklyn Bridge Park funded?
Call MVVA and ask them.

Is MVVA even in charge of finding the funds for this project?

Nope. City-Arch-River 2015 is. I put up an assessment already; that post is above.

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 02, 2011#122011-02-02T21:21+00:00

^ Exactly. Thank you.

zun1026 · PostFeb 02, 2011#132011-02-02T23:19+00:00

gone corporate wrote: Nope. City-Arch-River 2015 is. I put up an assessment already; that post is above.

I know that.

Alex Ihnen · PostFeb 02, 2011#142011-02-02T23:40+00:00

I do imagine that MVV and associates may be employed to make presentations, make the case the private funders, etc. I'm assuming he's good in front of clients.

gary kreie · PostFeb 03, 2011#152011-02-03T01:03+00:00

The funding amounts to $200 on average for every man, woman, and child in the metro area. Twice that if it comes from the city and county only. So this is a daunting task. We need changes to the grounds that will attract a lot of people from outside the area, and then find a way to get them to help pay for the experience through user fees, hotel taxes, sales taxes, federal income taxes, advertising, etc.

This isn't the only thing on Interior Secretary Ken Salazar's plate. He is also seeking $400 million from Congress to pay for an overhaul of the National Mall. Guess who will get first priority.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 06043.html

stl pride · PostFeb 03, 2011#162011-02-03T04:32+00:00

gary kreie wrote:
the central scrutinizer wrote:I'm pretty sure the people building this know where to look for funds.
There was scant evidence of that at the presentation last week. They said they were counting on earmarks, which are now not going to happen. Its good to hear that you have so much confidence in the people building this to know just where to look to secure the funding. Let us know the basis of your confidence, if you don't mind.

The media only focused on the cost, and how we cannot afford this. So what will the breakdown of the sources for the $578 million be. I started to propose percentages for each source that I thought would be fair. I'd like to see your presumed breakdown.

I remember Metcalfe was quite clear that no money was going to come from earmarks because the project is too large to be funded that way.

RobbyD · PostFeb 03, 2011#172011-02-03T08:29+00:00

Will be VERY interesting to see how this plays out...Lets hope the private part, of the public/private partnership this is gonna take, steps it up and helps convince the Feds the Arch Grounds project is a worthy investment...

You gotta think our national gathering spots like the Mall in DC and the Arch Grounds warrant Federal attention and money...But every level of gov't is facing prospects of cutting back on promised entitlements, pensions, etc...I have to think it'll be easier to scale back the collective of non-infrastructure projects than anything else...

DaronDierkes · PostFeb 03, 2011#182011-02-03T17:43+00:00

I think this bodes well for funding from the NPS,
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt ... 2bc8b.html

shadrach · PostFeb 03, 2011#192011-02-03T18:59+00:00

I thought so too.

Wonder if being from STL, she could be under scrutiny for 'favoritism,' 'cronyism,' nepotism' and simple old 'homerism.'

But I like it all the same.

RobbyD · PostAug 16, 2011#202011-08-16T03:04+00:00

Didn't know where else to put this...But what a chamber of commerce evening out downtown...street side dining and plenty of people out...Took a walk to the river from my place on 17th and boy I hope we are able to fund the upgrades to the arch grounds...there is no doubt, in my mind at least, that opening up the museum to downtown and continuing the mall across a closed memorial would create a real connection and a natural connection between the city and the national park...especially if parking is properly utilized downtown and the gateway mall into downtown is properly programmed...

goat314 · PostDec 12, 2011#212011-12-12T22:41+00:00

Arch Grounds project to get $20 million grant for I-70 work
By Robert Koenig, Beacon Washington correspondent
Posted 3:37 pm Mon., 12.12.11

WASHINGTON - The Gateway Arch expansion project will get a $20 million grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation for "roadway improvements along the I-70 corridor" near the Arch grounds, officials announced Monday.

The grant is expected to help pay for transportation infrastructure improvements -- including erecting a "lid" over the sunken Interstate 70 lanes that now separate the Arch grounds from the downtown area. The funding will come from the DOT's TIGER III discretionary grant fund.

"As we prepare to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Jefferson National Expansion Memorial and Gateway Arch in 2015, I'm very pleased that DOT awarded this grant to the CityArchRiver 2015 initiative, which is truly a public-private partnership of national significance," said U.S. Sen. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., in announcing the grant.

link: http://www.stlbeacon.org/issues-politic ... 20-million

PostDec 12, 2011#222011-12-12T22:43+00:00

I guess elected "leaders" felt there was enough public engagement about a "lid" over the depressed lanes? Who the hell made this decision? The so called public engagement process is so corrupt its ridiculous. I dont remember the citizenry rallying for a damn lid and where was the environmental assessment or study that said this was a viable solution?

bonwich · PostDec 16, 2011#232011-12-16T21:05+00:00

goat314 wrote:I guess elected "leaders" felt there was enough public engagement about a "lid" over the depressed lanes? Who the hell made this decision? The so called public engagement process is so corrupt its ridiculous. I dont remember the citizenry rallying for a damn lid and where was the environmental assessment or study that said this was a viable solution?

No one "elects" the Great White Fathers. Only God -- and a subservient board of directors -- can make you a CEO. And only other CEOs can admit you to the Great White Fatherhood.

quincunx · PostMar 12, 2013#242013-03-12T22:11+00:00

Got two ArchTax mailings today. Did you know it'll create jobs, improve our economy, and increase tourism? Also they are geared towards absentee voters. They don't even mention the actual election date. Don't they know the real election was on Mar 5?

roger wyoming II · PostMar 19, 2013#252013-03-19T21:55+00:00

^ Got a mailer, too. To be honest, I'm uncommitted at this point. I am not happy with the process but it is what it is and so the question remains for me would it be a good investment.

If private sources get the new west entrance and museum expansion covered and the tax revenue essentially pays for a solid Keiner Plaza and riverfront/LKS Drive upgrades then that wouldn't be so bad. I'd also like to see a commitment from GRG and city parks of what it would spend its extra revenue on (although I suppose BoA could divert some money from the general fund to other departments b/c of the extra parks revenue). If GRG could move forward with the Trestle, e.g., I would support pretty much in a heartbeat.

But failure of private or federal funds to take care of the arch components would leave a lasting resentment.

What are others thinking?