^Yep. And to think that Forsyth used to be considered Clayton's showcase street.
Garagification is the construction of numerous large monolithic facades that sit empty for large portions of any day and don't put any eyes on the street - creating a monotonous, uninviting, uninteresting and forboding streetscape. While the effects from a single street-facing garage can be mitigated (e.g. the Loop parking garage or the a lesser extent the Schlafly Library garage), multiple garages can start to undermine the appeal and character of blocks or entire stretches of a business district - particularly when smaller, more varied buildings are demolished to accommodate them.stlien wrote:What do you mean by this?
Until 10 years ago Forsyth had a single 6 story garage along it, despite having seven 8+ story office towers (including one over 20 stories). Forsyth Point would be the 4th new 6+ story garage in 10 years for a building with only 6 stories of office space. That's some significant garagification.
It's not a matter of should or shouldn't. If Clayton is okay with tearing down smaller, varied buildings for garage facades directly along their premier corridor (which they seem to be at this point) then that's their decision to make.stlien wrote:There shouldn't be a garage with this building?
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The garage bothers me a lot less when behind or above retail. I don't know that they need that much, but at least there's still space for street level activity. And the added height and mass is nice.
A garage per se doesn't bother me too much, but when it's as ugly as this one, then I get pretty durned upset. It's just a huge, massive, FU to the aesthetics of Forsyth in particular, and Clayton in general.
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That would make the difference, I genuinely prefer the garage facade to 75% of what it's replacing. Different tastes, I suppose. I want to save brutalism and mid-century modernism, but I don't honestly care that much for neo-Palladian, even if I admit it is what Clayton was at one time. You have found the style I would gleefully reskin.
I'm a little iffy on the garage, but overall I like it. Looks like it got bigger after that Flaherty Collins proposal died out.
What a disappointment. It's such a great site; there should have been a landmark tower here. Somehow they managed to make the garage even uglier. I'm sure the office space will prove to be very popular, though.
^I will give them credit for one thing: This building looks 87% better than the Pennant Building in Ballpark Village.
13 Floors, 125,000SF+ of office, 786 Parking Spaces, 3 retail bays, two terraces, and a 13th-Floor Event Space. It has certainly grown in size. The parking garage is an oof in my opinion. But it will probably end up looking better than the Pennant Building's. They haven't started putting up the screen or brick there so I'm not going to judge that yet.
Sounds like tenants are locked up for the most part. Widening the sidewalks for pedestrians too, that’s a plus.
From the BJ:
From the BJ:
https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/new ... e=facebookA proposed development at Forsyth and Brentwood boulevards in Clayton has been redesigned to include more square footage and better views of Shaw Park.
Scott Haley, managing director of US Capital Development, said Forsyth Point will now be 166,000 square feet with 25,000-square-foot floor plates. The seven-story office building will have ground-level retail space, a rooftop amenity area and a six-level parking garage for office tenants, retail visitors and the public. A rooftop restaurant and event space is still planned. A garden terrace also will be added atop the garage.The developer, formerly known as KP Development, previously proposed a $16 million, nine-story building with 60,000 square feet, of which 51,000 square feet would be Class A office space and 7,500 square feet for ground-level retail.
What hasn't changed are plans for US Capital Development and ElmTree Funds, led by founder and CEO Jim Koman, to occupy some of the new building. Haley said his firm is finalizing an agreement with a third company, which he described as a longtime Clayton tenant, to join the companies at Forsyth Point.
Lease rates have not been finalized, and a revised investment cost was not disclosed.
Haley also said the project emulates and emphasizes the city of Clayton's master plan of improving the pedestrian experience by widening sidewalks to 18 feet.
"It was a mutual discussion with the city of Clayton, and we thought, why not start with this project?" Haley said.
Remiger Design and Chris Cedergreen have been tapped for the design. No general contractor has yet been selected. Haley hopes construction will start in the fall after the Saint Louis Art Fair, held in Clayton's central business district in September.
Agree 100% That parking podium is ugly and seems overkill.. This will barely be noticeable in the skyline. I can't understand why the developer wouldn't opt for a taller tower to capitalize on the views of the park and skyline. I bet the Arch wouldn't even be visible from the top floor of this thing.framer wrote: What a disappointment. It's such a great site; there should have been a landmark tower here. Somehow they managed to make the garage even uglier. I'm sure the office space will prove to be very popular, though.
Well, the Clayton Architectural Review Board called-out Kummer on his crappy design; let's hope they do the same here.
I hope you're right, framer. it's literally more garage than building.
Come on, Clayton CBD wants it stubby office on a podium just like BPV. Why ruin itstlgasm wrote: I hope you're right, framer. it's literally more garage than building.
On a serious note. Would it be fair to say that the tenants announced for this project is Clayton's version of a downtown shuffle as you see with with BPV II/Met Center, etc.?? Another question, think Forsyth got ahead of Centene/Clayco on this one in terms of lining up some tenants instead of the next Centene phase or is their some connections already involved with this development & tenants announced?
My guess on the mystery tenant for this is Commerce Bank. The grassy roof portion looks similar to part of the Commerce Globe, and they have been a business in Clayton for some time.
Disappointed this is going from an apartment tower and office building to just office building. I thought after the apartment tower fizzled out this would still stay on its original footprint. I agree with others on the garage. Ugly and way too big in comparison to the office portion. At least it will have street level retail. I would like more height on that corner though.
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^100% agreed.
What an enormous loss for Clayton. Between the apartment tower/this proposal combo, Centene's broader footprint and Kumar putting forward anything close to a 2010's era proposal for that site, downtown Clayton went from being on the verge of an explosion to cementing itself as the area's 2nd CBD.
Very well could be a huge stroke of luck for the region as a whole, though. Either that or a horrible, horrible loss of opportunity. Fingers crossed 10 years out things work out on the positive side for the metro area.
What an enormous loss for Clayton. Between the apartment tower/this proposal combo, Centene's broader footprint and Kumar putting forward anything close to a 2010's era proposal for that site, downtown Clayton went from being on the verge of an explosion to cementing itself as the area's 2nd CBD.
Very well could be a huge stroke of luck for the region as a whole, though. Either that or a horrible, horrible loss of opportunity. Fingers crossed 10 years out things work out on the positive side for the metro area.
In addition to this, their existing building is showing it's age. Maybe they need more space and ready to leave their building.chriss752 wrote:My guess on the mystery tenant for this is Commerce Bank. The grassy roof portion looks similar to part of the Commerce Globe, and they have been a business in Clayton for some time.
FTR Commerce bank just did a some renovations on the first floor of that building two years ago. And "the grass looks like the commerce bank logo" isn't a very strong lead on this one, sorry.
Quite the contrast between Forsyth Point and its neighbor to the west (Shaw Park Plaza/1 N Brentwood). They appear to be exactly the same height, but take a dramatically different approach to parking and it’s integration with / masking by the building itself.moorlander wrote:
Shaw Park Plaza - 275,000 sq.ft. - 8 levels of parking including 4 below grade, 1 at grade, 3 above grade - 540 parking spaces - 10-11 leasable floors.
Forsyth Point - 125,000 sq.ft. - 6 levels of parking above grade - 786 spaces - 7 leasable floors.
Well unless the second phase adds more floors on top of the new tower, they're missing the boat. Everything about that site is keyed to the views to Shaw Park.