Good to see you have no idea what you are talking about Jive. You sound like you are really plugged in down there... 
My source is not with the developer, so he has no incentive to say it is not dead. This was told to me in person, from someone I trust. I don't know any details except that the project is not dead.
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Rchalk wrote:Good to see you have no idea what you are talking about jivedude. You sound like you are really plugged in down there...
Fill us in Mad Dog
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Rchalk wrote:Good to see you have no idea what you are talking about Jive. You sound like you are really plugged in down there...
Maybe I'm missing something, but what is one supposed to think? We have this hulking boarded up building with a fancy banner advertising luxury condos, complete with a website and phone number-- neither of which work at all. Are those clues indicative of a sound, forward-moving project? Why would you conclude that I "don't know what I'm talking about" when there is absolutely NO evidence that this project is moving forward under its current proposal? Do you know something I don't? Just curious. I hope I'm wrong, but with absolutely no valid contact info related to this project, I only have the obvious conclusions to draw.
Believe me, I am usually the ever-optimist about St. Louis projects, but lately I've been more and more disappointed with the slow pace of development (which of course is directly related to the slowing economy). If this project is moving forward, why can't I-- as a potential buyer-- get ANY information about it? Thanks in advance for your feedback.
Long story short is that one of the major players in the project is in a financial mess that needed to be cleaned up. The project will get done at some point (even though it might take foreclosure) and the condo's will most likely end up in the 2's rather than the 4's.
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Rchalk wrote:Long story short is that one of the major players in the project is in a financial mess that needed to be cleaned up. The project will get done at some point (even though it might take foreclosure) and the condo's will most likely end up in the 2's rather than the 4's.
^I feel like this is a more appropriate response than telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. It is obvious that this project isn't going forward as initially planned.
It probably is. I'm just used to a message board (phog.net) that has an entirely different tone... 
^ Ahh, let's feel the love! The members of this board are passionate for St. Louis and as such are not afraid to share their analyses. I part ways with those that provide unsubstantiated gossip that can only serve to cause harm.
It's starting to look more like the current regime running the project will be out soon. If it forecloses, someone will take the reigns from the bank rather quickly because the project is already well on its way w/ city approvals, planning, etc.
I still don't see the allure of these condos, whatsoever. Ugly building, ugly locations...ridiculously high prices. Hopefully, this area will improve with the addition of the Park Pacific, until then I'm afraid it's still the homeless daytime napping area.
I wish they would complete this project so people can see what a cool building it will be.
I heard (substantiated) that some serious money is going into the parks nearby. I think there will be some positive change but will the problem just move elsewhere? Real help is being provided but it's a tough road to hoe.Blues16 wrote:I still don't see the allure of these condos, whatsoever. Ugly building, ugly locations...ridiculously high prices. Hopefully, this area will improve with the addition of the Park Pacific, until then I'm afraid it's still the homeless daytime napping area.
Current photos. Looks like some of the wood covering the windows has been knocked out.
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From the sales office. Supposed sales.
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Based on the sales chart in the pic, it appears 8 out of a possible 26 units were sold. Somehow I'm having a hard time believing that....
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re: Projects Up In The Air
Original thread: www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=5455
After posting on the above thread earlier today, I have been asked to repost my analysis of the delays in construction to the appropriate threads individually. This posting relates to the delays in funding of the major new construction and certain redevelopment projects in the Downtown Saint Louis area, which would include the Pyramid projects, such as the Laurel, as well as Skyhouse and the Ford.
That construction has stalled on all of these projects makes absolute perfect sense.
For years, the economy has been capitalizing on incredibly lax lending standards, including and especially individual mortgage holders who’ve overextended themselves. This has been further exacerbated with the secondary markets’ selling of investment products based upon collateralized mortgage obligations, basically banks selling the interests in mortgages wholesale for investment. When these collapsed, it took down hedge funds as well, to the tune of $400 billion.
This resultant full-blown collapse in the US credit markets, and now the Euro credit markets, has greatly impacted the availability of either liquid or collateralized capital that can be used to fund major expansion projects like these. We’ve had a great history of rehabilitation projects, backed by state-supported and federally-supported tax credit programs for ancillary support of financing. While these programs remain strong and aren’t expected to disappear, their role as ancillary funding sources remains. Banks are still the primary source for capital in these development projects. As banks are in the doldrums of the credit market crash (and yes, it is a full-blown crash), it’s hard to place that $50M bridge capital to a fully-occupied building.
The establishment of a base population within these buildings is what will separate these projects from being a sound investment from a purely speculative enterprise. Only with a firm foundation in actual sales and revenues will a beleaguered lending institution be able to support such an allocation.
Problems relating to delayed construction are absolutely not Saint Louis-centric. It is endemic.
These companies want to finish their projects, which remain profitable ventures for them as well as local development to our benefit. While they may have cuts in marketing budgeting expenditures, the continued sales of interests in their projects and acceptances of commitments remain. I believe we can expect all these projects to continue, although these impediments to proper funding sources mean they will have delays to final completion. During this time, we must remember to look macro as well as local.
Also, I’m new to posting on this forum; please excuse the simplistic linking at the top as I learn proper encoding procedures.
Original thread: www.urbanstl.com/viewtopic.php?t=5455
After posting on the above thread earlier today, I have been asked to repost my analysis of the delays in construction to the appropriate threads individually. This posting relates to the delays in funding of the major new construction and certain redevelopment projects in the Downtown Saint Louis area, which would include the Pyramid projects, such as the Laurel, as well as Skyhouse and the Ford.
That construction has stalled on all of these projects makes absolute perfect sense.
For years, the economy has been capitalizing on incredibly lax lending standards, including and especially individual mortgage holders who’ve overextended themselves. This has been further exacerbated with the secondary markets’ selling of investment products based upon collateralized mortgage obligations, basically banks selling the interests in mortgages wholesale for investment. When these collapsed, it took down hedge funds as well, to the tune of $400 billion.
This resultant full-blown collapse in the US credit markets, and now the Euro credit markets, has greatly impacted the availability of either liquid or collateralized capital that can be used to fund major expansion projects like these. We’ve had a great history of rehabilitation projects, backed by state-supported and federally-supported tax credit programs for ancillary support of financing. While these programs remain strong and aren’t expected to disappear, their role as ancillary funding sources remains. Banks are still the primary source for capital in these development projects. As banks are in the doldrums of the credit market crash (and yes, it is a full-blown crash), it’s hard to place that $50M bridge capital to a fully-occupied building.
The establishment of a base population within these buildings is what will separate these projects from being a sound investment from a purely speculative enterprise. Only with a firm foundation in actual sales and revenues will a beleaguered lending institution be able to support such an allocation.
Problems relating to delayed construction are absolutely not Saint Louis-centric. It is endemic.
These companies want to finish their projects, which remain profitable ventures for them as well as local development to our benefit. While they may have cuts in marketing budgeting expenditures, the continued sales of interests in their projects and acceptances of commitments remain. I believe we can expect all these projects to continue, although these impediments to proper funding sources mean they will have delays to final completion. During this time, we must remember to look macro as well as local.
Also, I’m new to posting on this forum; please excuse the simplistic linking at the top as I learn proper encoding procedures.
Blues16 wrote:I still don't see the allure of these condos, whatsoever. Ugly building, ugly locations...
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (I happen to think the building is quite attractive), but I don't think anyone can dispute that this building will offer some of the best views in town. And the small floor plates will offer more privacy for each unit, which should appeal to many people.
Framer wrote:Blues16 wrote:I still don't see the allure of these condos, whatsoever. Ugly building, ugly locations...
Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder (I happen to think the building is quite attractive), but I don't think anyone can dispute that this building will offer some of the best views in town. And the small floor plates will offer more privacy for each unit, which should appeal to many people.
And...an elevator that opens to your individual condo. How private & elite is that!
They really need to redraw the kitchen layout though, in my opinion. They seem small & not very open to the living space like other developments do.
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^ There seems to be something wrong with the link to the Federal indictment story. This one should work:
<a href="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... ent">Local developer faces Federal indictment</a>
I wonder how much asbestos has been blowing around the immediate area as a result of Mr. Burghoff's activities?
<a href="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... ent">Local developer faces Federal indictment</a>
I wonder how much asbestos has been blowing around the immediate area as a result of Mr. Burghoff's activities?
I've always though the Ford is quite attractive. Sure, it doesn't have ornate brickwork or some awesome cornice, but its a tall building in a great location. Who wouldn't want to stare onto the Shell Building and the Civil Courts Building?
The prices, however, are a bit too high.
The prices, however, are a bit too high.
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Hugh Ferriss wrote:^ There seems to be something wrong with the link to the Federal indictment story. This one should work:
<a href="http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... ent">Local developer faces Federal indictment</a>
I wonder how much asbestos has been blowing around the immediate area as a result of Mr. Burghoff's activities?
Sounds like Mr. Burghoff has a lot of 'splaining to do.