urbanSTL

quincunx wrote: ↑

Nov 22, 2023

PXL_20231122_120426086.jpg

I feel like there is no adequate lighting outside the store at night. What do you think?

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Nov 30, 2023

Didn't it open a week ago?!?  

Yes, it did. I meant how the store is doing i.e., how busy is it?

Busy the couple times I walked there. Apparently it’s not a licensed Starbucks Store. From doing a search, unlicensed stores just have to prove that the foot traffic is there to become a permanent store. It’s akin to a Target or Mall Starbucks, but feels very much like a permanent store. 

Will also say that this store is arguably one of the easiest cafes to access in the region. Walking, taking transit, and parking in the Expo development are easy. 

The interior looks great and there is a good amount of space for laptopping. Pretty views of Debaliviere homes, Forest Park, and Expo. 

dylank wrote: ↑

Nov 30, 2023

Busy the couple times I walked there. Apparently it’s not a licensed Starbucks Store. From doing a search, unlicensed stores just have to prove that the foot traffic is there to become a permanent store. It’s akin to a Target or Mall Starbucks, but feels very much like a permanent store. 

Will also say that this store is arguably one of the easiest cafes to access in the region. Walking, taking transit, and parking in the Expo development are easy. 

The interior looks great and there is a good amount of space for laptopping. Pretty views of Debaliviere homes, Forest Park, and Expo. 

Wow, thank you. Didn't know what a licensed Starbucks store was until now. I hope it becomes a licensed one!

It opened in 2009 and Schnucks hasn't opened one like it since. I suspect they're not enthused by it.
It's 21,000 sf. The space in Expo is 12,000, IIRC.

Do we have any kind of idea what might end up replacing the Fields Foods? 

With so much development and activity along that corridor, you would think that something would move in and replace it fairly quickly. 

RockChalkSTL wrote: ↑

Mar 07, 2024

Do we have any kind of idea what might end up replacing the Fields Foods? 

With so much development and activity along that corridor, you would think that something would move in and replace it fairly quickly. 

Except for "pace has your space" signs, I have not seen any activity. I am also surprised that there are no takers yet.

“Park Place Coffee” interior alterations notice posted to street light in front of Ocean Grill/Bus stop. So assuming a coffeeshop. Anyone know where this is going?

284 DeBaliviere, supposedly, which I believe is part of the building next door. A coffee shop across from Starbucks...not so sure about that business plan.

New shop down pershing just opened too - Crema

I’m with you, not sure if that works. On top of that, a lot of people I know won’t even walk on that side of the street (I ride the metrolink and think they are crazy and being a tad bit racist but I can’t make them change their behavior) especially the demographic going to an independent coffee shop.

Until metro or the city block off that sidewalk that goes in front of Ocean Grill from cars that gets treated like an extra lane of street and a parking lot hangout (there’s cars parked there right this second hanging out blocking the sidewalk smoking and playing music), I’m not sure if that side will get going. It also gets trashed every single day but Metro does clean up most of the time. I think it’s hurting the perception of the new developments and making businesses weary of taking up the retail spaces (2 years in and they are all empty except Starbucks). Do we know who owns that building?

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote:New shop down pershing just opened too - Crema

I’m with you, not sure if that works. On top of that, a lot of people I know won’t even walk on that side of the street (I ride the metrolink and think they are crazy and being a tad bit racist but I can’t make them change their behavior) especially the demographic going to an independent coffee shop.

Until metro or the city block off that sidewalk that goes in front of Ocean Grill from cars that gets treated like an extra lane of street and a parking lot hangout (there’s cars parked there right this second hanging out blocking the sidewalk smoking and playing music), I’m not sure if that side will get going. It also gets trashed every single day but Metro does clean up most of the time. I think it’s hurting the perception of the new developments and making businesses weary of taking up the retail spaces (2 years in and they are all empty except Starbucks). Do we know who owns that building?

Love to see the interest in this open retail. But yeah, there is the new Starbucks, Crema, and the Coffee Shop at the Chelsea all within one block. Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

The dynamic between those that use the bus stop and the mostly college/grad students in the surrounding apartments is interesting for sure. There is a degree of racism/paranoia tied to it. Though it’s not that uncommon to see fighting/drug dealing there. It would help if that was cleaned up along with the litter and cars on the sidewalk.

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Apr 29, 2024

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote:New shop down pershing just opened too - Crema

I’m with you, not sure if that works. On top of that, a lot of people I know won’t even walk on that side of the street (I ride the metrolink and think they are crazy and being a tad bit racist but I can’t make them change their behavior) especially the demographic going to an independent coffee shop.

Until metro or the city block off that sidewalk that goes in front of Ocean Grill from cars that gets treated like an extra lane of street and a parking lot hangout (there’s cars parked there right this second hanging out blocking the sidewalk smoking and playing music), I’m not sure if that side will get going. It also gets trashed every single day but Metro does clean up most of the time. I think it’s hurting the perception of the new developments and making businesses weary of taking up the retail spaces (2 years in and they are all empty except Starbucks). Do we know who owns that building?

Love to see the interest in this open retail. But yeah, there is the new Starbucks, Crema, and the Coffee Shop at the Chelsea all within one block. Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

The dynamic between those that use the bus stop and the mostly college/grad students in the surrounding apartments is interesting for sure. There is a degree of racism/paranoia tied to it. Though it’s not that uncommon to see fighting/drug dealing there. It would help if that was cleaned up along with the litter and cars on the sidewalk.

Apparently a lot of the young women (the college and grad demographic you speak of) get cat called often by the guys who park their cars in front of ocean grill and hang out. I’ve talked to several people who moved after their lease or picked a different place because of this corner (again I also think it’s mostly paranoia of suburban transplants but we do want young women to feel safe). The fact that cars drive onto the sidewalk and park there, causing safety issues for pedestrians and people waiting for the bus, and accessibility issues for those with disabilities is the most frustrating thing to me. The metro access is a great asset and people waiting for the bus that just happen to be of a different income demo isn’t an issue. I agree though I think the hanging out on the sidewalk, blocking it, passing drugs, throwing Ocean Grill trash everywhere and pestering people is an issue. People’s pre conceived notions are basically getting “confirmed” which sucks. Most people waiting there and walking through there are just living their lives.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote:

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Apr 29, 2024

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote:New shop down pershing just opened too - Crema

I’m with you, not sure if that works. On top of that, a lot of people I know won’t even walk on that side of the street (I ride the metrolink and think they are crazy and being a tad bit racist but I can’t make them change their behavior) especially the demographic going to an independent coffee shop.

Until metro or the city block off that sidewalk that goes in front of Ocean Grill from cars that gets treated like an extra lane of street and a parking lot hangout (there’s cars parked there right this second hanging out blocking the sidewalk smoking and playing music), I’m not sure if that side will get going. It also gets trashed every single day but Metro does clean up most of the time. I think it’s hurting the perception of the new developments and making businesses weary of taking up the retail spaces (2 years in and they are all empty except Starbucks). Do we know who owns that building?

Love to see the interest in this open retail. But yeah, there is the new Starbucks, Crema, and the Coffee Shop at the Chelsea all within one block. Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

The dynamic between those that use the bus stop and the mostly college/grad students in the surrounding apartments is interesting for sure. There is a degree of racism/paranoia tied to it. Though it’s not that uncommon to see fighting/drug dealing there. It would help if that was cleaned up along with the litter and cars on the sidewalk.

Apparently a lot of the young women (the college and grad demographic you speak of) get cat called often by the guys who park their cars in front of ocean grill and hang out. I’ve talked to several people who moved after their lease or picked a different place because of this corner (again I also think it’s mostly paranoia of suburban transplants but we do want young women to feel safe). The fact that cars drive onto the sidewalk and park there, causing safety issues for pedestrians and people waiting for the bus, and accessibility issues for those with disabilities is the most frustrating thing to me. The metro access is a great asset and people waiting for the bus that just happen to be of a different income demo isn’t an issue. I agree though I think the hanging out on the sidewalk, blocking it, passing drugs, throwing Ocean Grill trash everywhere and pestering people is an issue. People’s pre conceived notions are basically getting “confirmed” which sucks. Most people waiting there and walking through there are just living their lives.

Yeah that’s a pretty accurate summation of what goes on at that corner. I have definitely seen the cat calling. If the retail bays get filled out and more foot traffic there, this may become more of an issue.

Would love to see all that cleaned up so folks that use the metro and bus have a safe an convenient public transportation option.

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Apr 29, 2024

Love to see the interest in this open retail. But yeah, there is the new Starbucks, Crema, and the Coffee Shop at the Chelsea all within one block. Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

Crema's on Union at Pershing, that's def more than a block away. Mack's appears to be doing well but Debaliviere Place has struggled with holding onto restaurants that set up shop in the neighborhood for as long as I can remember. I'd say the coffee shop is a good development, like you never know they might close the Starbucks. 

PeterXCV wrote:

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Apr 29, 2024

Love to see the interest in this open retail. But yeah, there is the new Starbucks, Crema, and the Coffee Shop at the Chelsea all within one block. Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

Crema's on Union at Pershing, that's def more than a block away. Mack's appears to be doing well but Debaliviere Place has struggled with holding onto restaurants that set up shop in the neighborhood for as long as I can remember. I'd say the coffee shop is a good development, like you never know they might close the Starbucks. 

True, I guess Crema is two blocks away. We definitely have an over abundance of open retail bays in the area. I just hope all of these coffee shops don’t cannabalize themselves so much that they all fail.

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Apr 29, 2024

PeterXCV wrote:

Debaliviere91 wrote: ↑

Apr 29, 2024

Love to see the interest in this open retail. But yeah, there is the new Starbucks, Crema, and the Coffee Shop at the Chelsea all within one block. Doesn’t seem to make sense to me.

Crema's on Union at Pershing, that's def more than a block away. Mack's appears to be doing well but Debaliviere Place has struggled with holding onto restaurants that set up shop in the neighborhood for as long as I can remember. I'd say the coffee shop is a good development, like you never know they might close the Starbucks. 

True, I guess Crema is two blocks away. We definitely have an over abundance of open retail bays in the area. I just hope all of these coffee shops don’t cannabalize themselves so much that they all fail.

Obviously the lack of a grocery store and pharmacy will continue to be issues for the vitality of the neighborhood. That should be retail priority 1. A neighborhood that should be very walkable is not because of that glaring issue.

I think fast casual restaurants are the blueprint for the other retail in this area (even the chain types that used to be on delmar but directly competed with local restaurants that Id like the loop to retain would be good for this spot). Students and people from the park would be attracted to those. The door dash scene on the street is borderline insane levels.

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote:I'm thinking this area needs to start with a bodega like Vincent's in Soulard or even a small convenience store/sandwich place like Shapiro's in the CWE. 

A bodega would be huge. I think the area suffers from a retail perspective because it’s sandwiched in between The Loop and CWE proper. A bit too close for another pharmacy or grocer to locate in DeBaliviere.

delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑

Apr 29, 2024

“Park Place Coffee” interior alterations notice posted to street light in front of Ocean Grill/Bus stop. So assuming a coffeeshop. Anyone know where this is going?

this is great conversation but i dont see the sign anymore. i am going to check the city web site for permits.

i agree with the perception of that corner and i feel like ocean grill is compounding the issue by allowing car traffic on sidewalk but that is just my personal opinion. i have also seen people urinating in that corner which is more like a hideout place.

Needs bollards.

PERSHING REDEVELOPMENT CORP

Building

03/06/2024

RETAIL SALES

$19,000.00

INT ALTS (TENANT IMPROVEMENT) PER PLANS

I see above permit for 280 DeBaliviere.

Though I am befuddled by another coffee shop I am going to take any new business in that corner.