urbanSTL

A "Lease Retail Space" sign has gone up.

The colored brick (terra cotta? Glazed?) is already going up around the ground floor retail space.

^I don't think there's anything planned at this point. I'm pretty sure Wash. U. owns it, and their next proximate project is likely to be Loop Lofts Phase II

quincunx wrote: ↑

Jun 29, 2017

There will be much more pushback from neighbors if anything else tall is proposed.

What makes you think that? Classic fear of too much auto traffic being created? Or just ruining the character of the neighborhood?

I think if anything is proposed east of the tracks along the north side of Delmar that the neighborhood will have no say, since that's outside the Historic District. But, obviously that wouldn't apply to the old auto-garage or Church's property.

I hear often from neighbors that it is out of scale. The Everly also surpassed the limit of the proposed form-based code.

The Everly is north of any single-family residential, hence there's no issue with shadows. As far as traffic, Skinker DeBaliviere shut themselves off from Delmar traffic years ago, so I'd say they don't have any say in the issue.

^Well, that strip of Delmar is in the Skinker-DeBaliviere Catlin Tract Parkview Historic District, so for better or worse they'll have a say:


Quincunx, do you know if there's a timeline for when the proposed form-based code will be adopted? (Sorry for all the questions).

I'd love to see something tall (8+ stories) at the garage site - which to my mind would really cement Delmar Station as a TOD success and also would be consistent with both the Moonrise (8 stories) and Everly (14 stories) at this point. I think there's a much stronger argument to keep any development of the Church's site shorter in the 3-5 range (the shadows concern, increased visibility by nearby homes, and less room for on site parking - not that I agree with any/all of those rallying cries).

Just hanging about it amazes me how much hate I've heard about the Everly in certain circles. Sadly, I suspect Wabash is right. There will be pushback.

St. Louisans are just not used to this scale on commercial streets. On my last visit to DC, I saw commercial strips with the scale of Delmar being transformed by Everly sized projects. Only difference is that in DC the preserve the historic facade and build the hi-rise on the back side.

I think the FBC is in a holding pattern. There was and outline in the TOD study, but no money to actually right the detailed code. Perhaps the CID/Wustl will take up the cause. The proposed FBC called for "Neighborhood Center Type 1" which is 3-8 stories, 60' - 100' It's currently zoned F. Neighborhood Commercial which has a height limit of 3 stories and 50'. A building will need a variance for height and pass the neighborhood's historic regs.

The main complaints are that the Everly is too tall, and it doesn't serve residents, it being geared towards transient students. And they will have a say; they vote and thus can influence the Alderman.

chaifetz10 wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

quincunx wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

goat314 wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

St. Louisans are just not used to this scale on commercial streets. On my last visit to DC, I saw commercial strips with the scale of Delmar being transformed by Everly sized projects. Only difference is that in DC the preserve the historic facade and build the hi-rise on the back side.

Take a drive up US 1 near Univ of Maryland.

It's also a moot point because 1) DC's economy is so much different than STL's. There's almost endless demand for new residential and businesses aren't afraid to be within the city itself rather than the outer burbs. 2) They are able to enforce much more in depth historic preservation codes because the city doesn't give in to any and all developer demands and they can leverage the demand to get the best project.

How is it a moot point? I was referring more to the scale and urban form, not economic growth. St. Louisans as a whole are not used to seeing these sort of TOD hi rise, in DC they are everywhere and often change the character of low rise commercial districts like the Loop.

chaifetz10 wrote: ↑

Jun 30, 2017

I think it's moot because until the empty lots, parking lots, and drive through development in the area are developed, there is little incentive for developers to spend the extra money building on top of low rise buildings. Yes, the Moonrise did this, but it is one of the very very few examples in St. Louis.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see this happen (even if it was just a few extra floors built on top of more historic low rise buildings... especially in the Loop and East Loop) but there's no current economic incentive for it to occur in STL.

The building on Olive is another example of preserving the historic facade, I believe. Two doesn't make a trend though.

Hell, the Everly itself preserved Delmar Hall. That's actually not a small thing. Three examples does not make a trend, but two in close proximity both geographically and temporally . . . that starts to look more convincing. That said, yes, there's plenty of empty space to fill up to the fourish story level first. But I bet there will be pushback even against that. (And to be fair, it is sometimes justified. Columbia's complaints about the many early four story stick developments with no respect to the pedestrian life of the downtown neighborhood and no street level retail have forced the more recent developments to improve. Most everything built in the last few years has been a lot better than any of the stuff built before it.)

quincunx wrote: ↑

Jul 03, 2017

symphonicpoet wrote: ↑

Jul 01, 2017

Hell, the Everly itself preserved Delmar Hall.

In what sense?

Well now! I understood it was supposed to, there's still a website for a space called Delmar Hall, and it looks much the same as the old one. I guess the renderings were a little misleading. Or I just didn't read the fine print carefully enough. I've driven by the site a few times, but . . . it's not my usual stomping grounds so I missed the discrepancy. Sorry.

^ Delmar Hall was Big Shark Bicycles. Big Shark wanted to move and Joe Edwards wanted a mid-size venue. I don't think it was ever in any danger.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Jul 05, 2017

^ Delmar Hall was Big Shark Bicycles. Big Shark wanted to move and Joe Edwards wanted a mid-size venue. I don't think it was ever in any danger.

I think I'd been under the impression it was incorporated into the Everly when in reality it's merely next door and the Everly lobby simply responds to it in terms of scale and so forth. My mistake. In any case, it seems a good use for the space, and the Everly at least compliments it well.