southsidepride wrote:I completely disagree with a "boycott the big guys day" downtown.
^Agreed. Plus, the boycott would really only be a one day boost. Although it would possibly generate publicity, it has the negatives mentioned above. The 350 project is great though! Additionally/alternatively, another idea would a support the independents day. Admittedly it is sort of similar to the boycott idea, but it comes across as a lot more positive while still raising awareness of the local options available.
Agreed! There is no need to boycott the chains. That is very negative and unrealistic. We should all make a conscious effort to consider all of our purchases. When you need something, go down the chain...First, is there someone in my neighborhood I can support? Second, is there someone in my city who carries this item? If those two questions can't be answered locally then head to the chains. You also have to keep in mind, you may be paying a little more to support locals, but if the business is your direct neighborhood you are benefiting yourself by purchasing there. Just think how much your property loses value when the neighborhood is full of empty storefronts. I have been preaching this concept for over 5 years downtown to no avail. We are losing value in our residences because our streets are becoming vacant. That 10-20% more you may be paying will benefit you more in the long run when we have our vibrant streets that we all wish for. National chains analyze the sales per sq ft as gauged by state sales tax reports. As of downtown, downtown is not even on their radars because our sales per sq ft are very very low in comparison to almost every other area of the city. So shop your neighborhood these coming months to make sure you keep the neighborhood streetscape alive!
IMO we don't want to be seen as a hostile environment for national chains, they provide jobs and are a vital component of any vibrant big city downtown.
The 3/50 would work also or at least help, if any one and enough people did it. What has been your experience with doing it so far and when you shared this idea with your friends did they also embrace it?
IMO we don't want to be seen as a hostile environment for national chains, they provide jobs and are a vital component of any vibrant big city downtown.
The 3/50 would work also or at least help, if any one and enough people did it. What has been your experience with doing it so far and when you shared this idea with your friends did they also embrace it?
I'm thinking about adding it as a signature to certain emails. Might be a start.
It takes a little effort to discover what is out there in independent retailers, but it can be rewarding to find them. What is it that someone says about an educated consumer?
I think people aren't just reacting to Expresso Mod's closing, but to the information posted on the previous page noting that two to three more closing are imminent.
I personally still wouldn't call all that the failure of downtown, but if it comes to pass I would call it a significant setback and a loss of character in the neighborhood.
innov8ion wrote:q: what do you call an independent retail store implementing a growth strategy?
a: a (shudderz!) chain
Did you not care for Expresso Mod? Do you not think it was a valuable part of the area? Do you not think it added something unique to the area?
Whaaa? All I'm sayin is that I don't see Culinaria as the devil.
I've heard nothing but great things about Espresso Mod. Sad to see it go, for sure. I love a lot of the other Indies and wouldn't mind if I had a job downtown so I could support them more often.
It's not so much that Culinaria is evil. In my opinion, and what we are mad at is that the city gave them 4 million dollars,( some of it mine, as I had to pay the city tax money), half of their overall budget.
If we had received half of our overall starting costs we would have probably thrived, but it costs alot of money to open even a humble coffee shop such as ours and you had to put a lot on the line (house, credit cards etc). It was always a struggle to try to pay off those loans and try to make some kind of money to put forth the quality that we tried to do.
with the City and the Downtown Partnership giving that kind of money they were well aware of the fact, it was not going to be, just a grocery store. They basically disregarded what effect it would have on the little guy who had poured their life savings into their business because they were so desparate to say there was a Schnucks downtown. It should have been an addition but instead their business model was copy what was there already and do it cheaper. So therefore everyone surrounding them has lost 1/2 of thier business. We really believed in downtown but feel betrayed by the partnership and the city.
I don't think it should be overlooked that Desco/Schnucks has some very large and very vacant properties that they have, according to the sources I have, done everything to keep out of the hands of real competition.
It's a good thing that Schnuck's/Culinaria opened downtown. Before that I had to go to the dump of a store at Grand and Lee. But that doesn't render the various objections moot.
espressomod wrote:It's not so much that Culinaria is evil. In my opinion, and what we are mad at is that the city gave them 4 million dollars,( some of it mine, as I had to pay the city tax money), half of their overall budget.
If we had received half of our overall starting costs we would have probably thrived, but it costs alot of money to open even a humble coffee shop such as ours and you had to put a lot on the line (house, credit cards etc). It was always a struggle to try to pay off those loans and try to make some kind of money to put forth the quality that we tried to do.
with the City and the Downtown Partnership giving that kind of money they were well aware of the fact, it was not going to be, just a grocery store. They basically disregarded what effect it would have on the little guy who had poured their life savings into their business because they were so desparate to say there was a Schnucks downtown. It should have been an addition but instead their business model was copy what was there already and do it cheaper. So therefore everyone surrounding them has lost 1/2 of thier business. We really believed in downtown but feel betrayed by the partnership and the city.
I'm definitely feeling your pain (and understanding your comments), but I can't imagine that you thought the City was 100% committed to independents and would not also seek to attract larger retailers. The city has poured a lot of money into downtown, making it an attractive place for independent businesses to locate. These are real subsidies and we shouldn't be surprised when subsidies continue to be offered (though you can be offended by the size of them). I was searching for an analogy and came up with this:
It's like dating a girl who's cheating on her boyfriend only to find out some months after she breaks up with him that she's cheating on you with someone else. How dare she!
The City and Downtown partnership should have looked at the plans for the store and made sure what that plan was would not be a detrement to the neighborhood businesses around. It like the CVS's opening opposite a Walgreens ,and the city giving them money to do it. It's not like the CVS would bring in different people. All they are going to do is steal from the current clientel. we need to be diverse and offer different things to appeal to a wider scope of people.
if they had opened a grocery store that sold coffee beans, fine, all grocery stores do that , but to open a coffee bar , it was an obvious attempt to lure business away from places that already offered this, they were not filling a void in the downtown market, and they don't even have to make money doing it.
Downtown needs small businesses like Espresso Mod as well as the big guys. We need a good mix of both. But we also need a good mix of customer support for these businesses. When Culinaria was not open Espresso Mod did better (lack of competition), but when Culinaria opened it was his "loyal" customers who jumped ship. For whatever reason, they chose to support a different merchant. There are good customers and fair weather customers. The latter of which will dump you in a New York second, depending on which way the wind is blowing and IMO how cheap they can buy it. Many a small business survives in the shadow of the big guy by being different or by offering something unique that the big guys do not offer. Whether it be service beyond comparison or a product you just can't find at the big stores. But when two places offer virtually the same thing, ie. coffee and there is nothing exceptional in the case of either one, there is very little customer loyalty. To stand out you have to stand out. Price is always a balancing act for the merchant, but when you do something some one else isn't or can't do you then carve a very unique niche that the customer knows he has to come to you if he wants something that good. Come lately, coffee shops are a dime a dozen and what I can get at one I can pretty much get at another. Blame Culinaria or the economy but I think you need to blame the customer. No one twisted their arm and made them go elsewhere. They had the choice and could have supported Espresso Mod regardless of who opened downtown. There just wasn't enough paint on the wall to keep it from fading. I have also heard it called the WOW factor.
I agree. Its the customer that send people out of business not the store across the street. I also agree that the Kaldi's was probably not needed when we have numerous fine coffee shops close by. But thats what they decided to provide. Its not the cities responsibility to tell them what they can and cannot sell.
Downtown is better with the grocery store than without.
^ No reason to get sh!tty. People are expressing honest opinions about why they think Schnuck's is an asset to downtown and why the city shouldn't be in the business of dictating what businesses stock on their shelves (or brew in their pots). I believe that a mid-size grocery store was/is essential for downtown and the growth in residents. Over time more people will move downtown due to the presence of Culinaria and there will be more people to support independents. I do not wish to minimize in any way the effort a store owner puts into their own business, or how much it must suck to close, but let's allow people to each make his/her own points and understand that people see the same event differently.
I'm sure the owner invested a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into their business. I've heard nothing but good things about Espresso Mod. One distinction, however, is that they closed @ 4pm whereas Culinaria closes @ 10pm. But business is business. Our hopes and dreams were answered by Schnucks arriving downtown. It's not our fault, that of the city, or state. It's just life. For every bit of happiness, there's a fair share of sadness and disappointment. You will be missed.
We did try other hours and weekends but the volume never amounted to anything, which I was suprised at after I opened.
Again I'm not saying Culinaria shouldn't have come and isnt a needed additition, and if they hadn't gotten all that money I'd have nothing to say as this is, or should be, a free market.
I just beleive, with a little forethought and restraint, we could have made the area stronger as a whole instead of a game "Last Store Standing".
Being critical of a small business owner in downtown St. Louis who had to close is bad form..I thank you for your guts in trying and hope that down the road you reopen somewhere and enjoy lasting success...
