urbanSTL

JimJim15 wrote:Ok, today I went downtown and looked at the Dorsa, the Bogen, and the Ely Walker lofts. I have to say that Dorsa is lagging way behind ...



Bogen and Ely Walker are scheduled to be completed about the same time, yet Dorsa doesn't have any sort of a display unit while the other two do. You can't walk into the unfinished space to get a feel for the area (while the other 2 let us). They can't tell you anything about upgrade prices (while Ely Walker has an standard/upgrade price list).



How in the world can you put money down on a space in a building COMPLETELY sight unseen?



Dorsa tends to be around 140-150/sqft, while the other buildings are quite a bit higher ... and that's fantastic for Dorsa. But upgrades can completely negate that advantage. It just seems like they're really hurting themselves by not having ANY information besides floorplans. I need to put some money down and reserve a spot somewhere now, but I simply can't go with Dorsa if I know nothing about what I'm getting into ... even though I like the Dorsa more.

I agree that at least having a display is huge, expecially when the competition both have one. BUT a display can also be deceiving. A builder like Orchard will take the best floor plan on the side of the building that has the biggest windows, and put every option, including the kitchen sink and WOW you with what might not be the reality. To really know what you're getting you need to walk the building and see your exact space so you can see views, both during the day and if possible at night. And you need to check things like floors, ceilings, walls to see if maybe your unit for some reason, has some brick missing, or your windows are smaller than anyone else's or you have a big ass hole in the floor. You never know in these old buildings what might be up. And if something is off, ask the developer what their plans are to fix it.



And Dorsa is not the only one who does not have a display. Loftworks have not done a display over at Moon Brothers and I think they only have like 10 left. Their sales force will take you up in the building so you can see your space which helps you envision how it will turn out. If you want to see a finished product they take you over to Printers as the finishes will be very similar. I would think Pryamid could do the same and I bet their options and selection prices will be similar to Banker's. So ask to see that price list.



Bottom line is if you know the developer and their reputation, then a display shouldn't matter. Pyramid and Loftworks are the old kids on the block down here and their mentality is that their reputation speaks for itself. On the flip side, if you're new to looking downtown and don't know the various builders and have trouble conceptualizing then yes, a display unit can really help. But nothing is better than being an informed buyer. So be thorough, ask questions and do as much research as possible.

See, we went down to the Pyramid office, expressed interest in the Dorsa, and we were handed exact hard copies of what is available online. No extra info. And we weren't taken to Bankers to see their model. Nothing.



Every company finishes differently. Some are untra modern in their architectural features ... some are more conservative. I would have loved to have seen something that Pyramid has done, but we weren't shown anything. At all. I have the floor plans memorized and I didn't need to drive downtown just to be handed what I've been staring at online for a few weeks now.



I guess I just have to wait until they know a little more. But that's a scary thing to do when these get snapped up so quickly.



I do have a question for the people on this board ... what are the advantages and disadvantages of living in a building with over a hundred units as opposed to one with 30-ish? Did that factor into anyone's decision making process?

JimJim15 wrote: And we weren't taken to Bankers to see their model. Nothing.

There will not even be a display model in Bankers until sometime early next year.

JimJim15 wrote:See, we went down to the Pyramid office, expressed interest in the Dorsa, and we were handed exact hard copies of what is available online. No extra info. And we weren't taken to Bankers to see their model. Nothing.



Every company finishes differently. Some are untra modern in their architectural features ... some are more conservative. I would have loved to have seen something that Pyramid has done, but we weren't shown anything. At all. I have the floor plans memorized and I didn't need to drive downtown just to be handed what I've been staring at online for a few weeks now.



I guess I just have to wait until they know a little more. But that's a scary thing to do when these get snapped up so quickly.



I do have a question for the people on this board ... what are the advantages and disadvantages of living in a building with over a hundred units as opposed to one with 30-ish? Did that factor into anyone's decision making process?

If I were you I would go ahead and reserve, you'll have 60 days to back out and to prod them for more info. But just to let you know, I bought my loft only seeing a floorplan and the unfinished space, no display unit. Like 50% of all lofts are probably sold this way, and you get a better price for having faith and buying sight unseen. Right now in my development prices are 15-20k higher than when I reserved back in May, and most of the desireable floorplans have been snatched up. And it is still 8 months until my space is done!

But here's my problem ... the unit I reserve is dependent on what options I'm going to want to put into the until ... fewer upgrades means a floor plan with more square footage whle more upgrades means less square footage.



So which do I go with? I have no idea what the standard features are, so I don't know what I'm going to want to upgrade, much less what the upgrade prices are. Oh well. I really want to be in the Dorsa. Maybe I'll just suck it up.



Ely Walker is having some problems with speculators artificially raising its prices by buying abnormally large numbers of units, and I'm not sure I want to deal with that.

What are you talking about man the standard features are right on their site:

http://www.dorsalofts.com/dorsa-stdfeat-Sep16.pdf

This clearly states the standard freatures, laminate counters, new concrect floors, maple cabnets etc. Just go with a floorplan that allows for about 10-20k of upgrades,I'm assuming you'll buy hardwood and granite at a minimum.

Here are some of the upgrade prices I have seen at Bankers: Granite countertops ($2,000 - $4,000), custom lighting, building out of a second bedroom ($4,000), fireplace ($5,000), double master bath sinks, etc. Just focus on the floorplan that you like the most. You have two months to bail, and another couple to decide on upgrades.

Are you guys sure about having months to make a decision before backing out? When I put my money down for Banker's I was told I had two weeks. Obviously the amount of time it will be before Dorsa is finished makes it more likely that they will give you more time. I'm just making sure the info here is accurate.



thanks!



Go Pyramid!



ps the scheme of having people put money down so they can list these units as 'reserved' is fantastic! didn't perceive the advantage to them when I first put my money down. wondered why they would allow me to put cash down and then ask for it back.... the illusion of demand. makes people do crazy things. (although I am happy with my decison?)

Yes I am sure.

coldsteelsunshine wrote:Are you guys sure about having months to make a decision before backing out? When I put my money down for Banker's I was told I had two weeks. Obviously the amount of time it will be before Dorsa is finished makes it more likely that they will give you more time. I'm just making sure the info here is accurate.



thanks!



Go Pyramid!



ps the scheme of having people put money down so they can list these units as 'reserved' is fantastic! didn't perceive the advantage to them when I first put my money down. wondered why they would allow me to put cash down and then ask for it back.... the illusion of demand. makes people do crazy things. (although I am happy with my decison?)

When did you put down money at Bankers? I put down in April and was told I had until June to decide. I didn't actually go to contract until August. I would guess that they were trying to get you closer in timetable to everyone else.



As for Dorsa, it sounds like it's going to be a lot like Bankers. I also put my money down without seeing anything. And while it's been difficult to deal with because I want to know what I'm buying, the selections process really helped visualize what this thing is going to look like.

JimJim15 wrote:what are the advantages and disadvantages of living in a building with over a hundred units as opposed to one with 30-ish? Did that factor into anyone's decision making process?

Smaller buildings can be seen as "exclusive", which is good for resale value. Last time I considered the question, they also tended towards larger, more open plans.



Larger buildings, though, have an economy of scale which means you can afford better building amenities while keeping the association dues low. My building is 30 units, and I personally might have chosen a larger one; except the only option I had at the time was Terra Cotta. Unlike MistaC01, I much prefer the less "finished" look of my timber and brick to drywall and concrete.

No, you misunderstood me, I was simply stating that Orchard usually produces more finished units than other developers. My unit is actually a corner unit with two large walls of exposed brick, with timber coulums and wood ceilings throught the unit. I too, like this look. The only thing I don't like are the plans with no walls, a little to open for my taste.

I stand corrected. In that case: unlike MistaC01, I much prefer the large open plan Elder Shirt allowed me.

Touch?.

HonestBusinesMan wrote:

coldsteelsunshine wrote:Are you guys sure about having months to make a decision before backing out? When I put my money down for Banker's I was told I had two weeks. Obviously the amount of time it will be before Dorsa is finished makes it more likely that they will give you more time. I'm just making sure the info here is accurate.



thanks!



Go Pyramid!



ps the scheme of having people put money down so they can list these units as 'reserved' is fantastic! didn't perceive the advantage to them when I first put my money down. wondered why they would allow me to put cash down and then ask for it back.... the illusion of demand. makes people do crazy things. (although I am happy with my decison?)

When did you put down money at Bankers? I put down in April and was told I had until June to decide. I didn't actually go to contract until August. I would guess that they were trying to get you closer in timetable to everyone else.



As for Dorsa, it sounds like it's going to be a lot like Bankers. I also put my money down without seeing anything. And while it's been difficult to deal with because I want to know what I'm buying, the selections process really helped visualize what this thing is going to look like.

Hmmm, that's really interesting. I'd call them and raze hell if I cared, but I don't think it matters and I don't want to. I actually reserved in early august. Nearly all the units were gone at that time. They told me TWO weeks to decide. Drop the check off ($2500.00) and they'd give me two weeks to have it back. Then at the end of that time I payed the other half. I'm really interested to hear that the pressure was applied a little harder to me. Not sure that I care, but interested none the less.



For the individual mentioning exposed walls, I have to agree. It was a major selling point for me that our unit (in Banker's) will have a brick exposed wall running the length of the unit. A nice fireplace backed up to an exposed brick wall with tall ceilings... now that's comfy. To each his own however, and I will say that I have seen many fantastic things done with all different types of units. I would suggest everyone attend the next loft district open house. I went this fall and it was fantastic. Great ideas!

My question to all those who have already reserved or contracted is this:



Are you just assuming that the interest rates will not be sky high in 18 months-2 years, or are you somehow locking in the rates that we have today?

When you get pre approved, you can lock in your rate. Obvious plus and minus to this though:



Plus - rates go up, you're locked in at the low one you previously set up



Minus - rates go down, and you're contractually locked to the rate you previously set.



However, sometimes, if say you locked in a rate at 6% now, and rates are 5% when you close, some lenders will negotiate and meet you at 5.5% or 5.75% on good faith.

ContractorKitchens wrote:When you get pre approved, you can lock in your rate. Obvious plus and minus to this though:



Plus - rates go up, you're locked in at the low one you previously set up



Minus - rates go down, and you're contractually locked to the rate you previously set.



However, sometimes, if say you locked in a rate at 6% now, and rates are 5% when you close, some lenders will negotiate and meet you at 5.5% or 5.75% on good faith.

Just an FYI - If you are looking to lock your rate on new construction you can get rate locks for up to 300 days (180 is typical) These long term locks though often require the bor to pay points for the lock (1 point = 1 percent of the loan amount) with as much as half due as a deposit. Usually if rates have dropped significantly you can get the lower rates, especially on these longer term locks.



For refinances and existing property purcahses, you can lock in at 30 days normally without having to pay any points, while anything over that will typically require a quarter point or more, but this will usually be paid at closing. On shorter term locks unless there is a very large drop in rates (.375 or more) you are usually stuck with what you locked in at. "Float down" options are also sometimes available when you lock giving you the one-time oportunity to lock in at a lower rate after you've already locked in. Some lenders charge a fee for this option, some don't. Not all Lenders will offer a rate lock, especially if you are working with a Non-Conforming Lender. Also just because you see that the Federal Reserve rate is going up does not mean your lenders rates are neccesarily going to go up. Not all rates are tied to the Fed Benchmark



Hopefully this helps. One last piece of advice. If your broker is telling you that they are locking in your rate at such and such rate, ask for a copy of the lock for your records. Nothing is worse than being told that you are locked in when actually the broker still has to send in the paper work and overnight rates rise a quarter, and you're stuck with the increase.



If you have anymore questions feel free to ask.

coldsteelsunshine wrote:Hmmm, that's really interesting. I'd call them and raze hell if I cared, but I don't think it matters and I don't want to. I actually reserved in early august. Nearly all the units were gone at that time. They told me TWO weeks to decide. Drop the check off ($2500.00) and they'd give me two weeks to have it back. Then at the end of that time I payed the other half. I'm really interested to hear that the pressure was applied a little harder to me. Not sure that I care, but interested none the less.

My guess as to where the pressure on you came from was that they were just going to contract with everyone. Can I ask what unit you reserved? If it was one of the lower floors, my initial guess will still apply. I'm on the 5th floor and got the contract paperwork in early early August and signed by mid August. When I signed, I think the 2nd floor was already doing finish selections or was going to be starting soon.



I would speculate that once they started getting people under contract any units that were still available had to move a lot quicker to get in on the project. I would say that's better than say, the Marquette, which required 10% of the purchase price down in 10 days. That's pressure.



Friends on mine reserved at Dorsa in September and put down their $2500. They were told they probably wouldn't hear anything else from pyramid until January when they would be starting the contract process.



Anyone else reserve recently? Are you having the same experience as coldsteelsunshine? Do you think it's been good or bad?

mcarril wrote:Just an FYI - If you are looking to lock your rate on new construction you can get rate locks for up to 300 days (180 is typical) These long term locks though often require the bor to pay points for the lock (1 point = 1 percent of the loan amount) with as much as half due as a deposit. Usually if rates have dropped significantly you can get the lower rates, especially on these longer term locks.

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm not sure about locking in for THAT long term. We're @ Bankers, don't need 300 days, i forgot this was at Dorsa, which will need 300+ days.



Good info though. Thanks.

Nothing is worse than being told that you are locked in when actually the broker still has to send in the paper work and overnight rates rise a quarter, and you're stuck with the increase.

or you can just tell them to knock 25 bps off of their YSP (yield spread).

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:

Nothing is worse than being told that you are locked in when actually the broker still has to send in the paper work and overnight rates rise a quarter, and you're stuck with the increase.

or you can just tell them to knock 25 bps off of their YSP (yield spread).

Good point, assuming they are making any YSP. They could also give you a credit for it as well. A good broker won't just tell you "Tough luck there's nothing I can do for you". The problem is that most people don't know a whole lot about the mortgage process and they can get away with stuff like that.

Good point, assuming they are making any YSP

I'm not sure I've ever met a broker/loan officer not trying to make YSP, especially on loan amounts in the range of what the lofts are going for.

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:
I'm not sure I've ever met a broker/loan officer not trying to make YSP, especially on loan amounts in the range of what the lofts are going for.

I've seen it a few times, but you're right, it's the exception, not the rule, especially on loans the size we're seeing along Washington Ave. Are you in the mortgage business STL UAB, or just an informed consumer?