urbanSTL

gary kreie wrote: ↑

Jun 27, 2021

I noticed Amtrak allowed Denver to keep their station pull in back out as it was designed. Unlike St Louis where they required a straight through design hence a new station.


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Oh, it's better than that. Denver Union Station wasn't actually built as a stub ended station. It was originally a through station, but the D&RGW stubbed it at some point when they closed and sold off a bunch of their downtown yards. But Amtrak permitted it to remain stubbed, even when there was so much vacant land nearby it would have been trivial to relay some tracks. Probably because they have maybe two trains a day of their own through that station. Apparently UP and Winter Park hired them in 2018 to operate the current iteration of the Ski Train, but that's a private contract so I expect they'd use any station and any schedule requested. Other than that it's pretty well Denver's ballgame to do with as they choose. If the city of St. Louis owned Union Station and paid Amtrak to operate the Kansas City train maybe Amtrak would be quite content to use a stub here as well. But they're really not comparable anyway. Even in its heyday Denver Union had about the same capacity and layout as the St. Louis Union Terminal you can see in Compton and Dry. Just much much smaller.

If there is any street that can become STLs 16th St. Mall its Wash Ave. Our downtown isn't anywhere close to being able to support that level of retail yet but it's something to aim for. The polished pedestrianization would be a fairly easy start, especially if GRG is on board.

Wash Ave is such an important street I always wonder what it will look like in 10-20 years. Right now it's a lot closer to a non-country Broadway Strip in Nashville than a shopping corridor. Becoming a national nightlife destination like Nashville would be great for tourism, but the current scene on Wash Ave already has its fair share of problems for actual downtown residents.

I was hoping to find a point for this post along the way but alas, I am just rambling. Let's just continue to densify downtown and fill the vacant spots in on Wash Ave and we will be in a good spot.

^I'd say Maryland from Euclid to Kingshighway would be a likelier bet. But honestly, we need to improve public transit and shrink all our stroads first.

I would love to see a long boardwalk - promenade - riverwalk going North from Laclede's Landing with views of the River to the East, and Bars, restaurants, and shops on the West side.  It could stretch all the way down along where the NFL stadium was going be.  

Boston created a similar new destination along a moribund stretch of bayfront property downtown that used to consist of old warehouses and cheap parking lots.  It is similarly close to the Boston Convention Center and older restaurant strips.  The new waterfront property did not cannibalize the older restaurant strips -- just the opposite.  The hot waterfront make the whole area a destination for the entire Northeast US.  The best local Boston Restaurants spun-off branches there. Ours would need to include BallPark Village style security to convince locals it is safe and so they would convince visitors. 

https://blog.signatureboston.com/bostons-coolest-neighborhood-the-south-boston-waterfront

I think our own new riverfront view boardwalk would become our Pier 39, or Nashville's Broadway and would extend naturally to the Convention Center and Washington Avenue in a way Ballpark Village never will.  It could make St. Louis a national destination city.

First time ever in Denver - landed today and I’ll be here through the 14th. First impression is that this is my new favorite city. Just soooo many things done well with a very vibrant and active downtown.

I love their downtown. I’ve been there several times and the mountains are a big draw. But not crazy about the weather — seems like their summer is 2 months shorter than ours. Snow in May is common. Also since it is a newer emerging city, some of their institutions like art museum, botanical garden, etc are still catching up to older cities to the east. Not crazy about their distant airport where I found the airport Embassy suites was a 10 mile drive away and the van is always full and the next one is an hour away. Also, I’ve never seen I-70 not jammed and must plan accordingly. I do love Boulder and Evergreen though. And proximity to mountain hikes.


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This new residential tower is under construction in Denver. I'd love to see something like this in St. Louis, but I'm not sure our market could support what's gotta be an insanely expensive place. 

https://www.dezeen.com/2021/11/11/mad-a ... aped-rift/

^I would love to see that in the same spot as the Peabody Plaza Building. Only in my dreams.

Denver Infill - Tower Crane Census: Summer 2022

https://denverinfill.com/2022/07/tower- ... -2022.html

Denver (and Minneapolis) are prime examples of what cities with good governance in sensible state governments can get accomplished. 

^^ was in Denver recently and can confirm that crane activity was quite visible. Hadn't been to downtown Denver in some time and the growth since has been impressive. (Did notice however there were a lot of empty ground floor commercial/restaurant etc. spaces.... looking things up, it appears tourism has returned to pre-pandemic levels but downtown office vacancy is at a record 25%.)

Denver imo is definitely a city for STL to look at for "urbanism" but it also is so palpable how so many of Denver's assets are in or just outside downtown... so much easier to achieve a mass of energy and then expand from there than being much more polycentric in nature like Saint Louis City.  (We're more like Atlanta, although our overall population density is still considerably higher than ATL's due to our neighborhoods while our Central Corridor is considerably less dense than their Downtown-Midtown-Buckhead corridor spurred by strong regional growth.) The other thing I noticed with Denver's new construction and glancing at some of the proposals is that with some exceptions, in general their ethos seems to be one of not worrying too much about architectural and height statements but rather methodically filling up parking lots, etc. with decent urban form.

 ^ true, but compared to typical Rust Belt/Legacy Cities both Denver and Minneapolis/St. Paul benefit from tremendous advantages that make governance and accomplishments easier than in most Rust Belt/Legacy Cities. (Same for Columbus OH v. Cleveland and Cincinnati and Nashville v. Memphis.)  And for Denver, being in the Front Range is such a huge additional asset.

Wouldn't it be nice is Stan was doing things like this in STL instead of sh*tting on it

https://www.9news.com/article/money/mar ... 2391b5ed6d

Something to follow. Denver job growth as slowed. Interesting because Denver appeared to return to pre-pandemic job numbers quickly and even exceeded by them by 40,000 heading into summer 2022. Then, it just stops. Denver has added just 4000 employees in 16 months.



Looking deeper at the Denver region by sector over the last 12 months. The information sector is -4.8%, financial activities -5.4%, and Education/Health -1.6%.

Maybe ask some Denver people on Twitter.

The past two years, when people in my social media circle move somewhere, odds are it's Denver. I've heard it referred to as West Kirkwood recently 

Downtown Denver is still very vibrant. Was there last week. I suspect a good portion of the vacancies are along the 16th Street Mall corridor where a street revitalization project has been dragging on for years now. The few finished blocks are awesome but construction has definitely taken its toll.

It will be a gem when complete.

Denver Post - Layoffs, furloughs coming for Denver employees amid budget crisis, mayor says

https://www.denverpost.com/2025/05/22/d ... furloughs/

Denver has eliminated parking requirements for new developments on a 9-3 vote.

Other cities' Downtown Vacancy: (CBRE)
-St. Louis: 29.1%
-Kansas City: 24.1%
-Minneapolis: 28.4%
-St. Paul: 34.7%
-Indianapolis: 19.4%
-Milwaukee: 19.2%/20%
-Denver: 36.8%

Is the party over in Denver? Doom loop?

That is certainly the vibe around their downtown right now according to the residents I have talked to, however their diminished "doom loop" downtown is still miles more vibrant and lively than ours. They also have a ton more local residents and the downtown is actually well integrated into most of its surrounding neighborhoods. Young people who like mountains will also continue to move there whenever they have a life crisis. They will be fine.