Who is heb? They always are posting odd things.wabash wrote:^A bit late to the party.
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Besides the dire implications for future transit funding--what's to become of the Loop Trolley project itself if they don't get the $500,000? Is it shelved indefinitely?
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I don't know if I lucked into reading the full article accidentally or what, but it says that it wont delay opening; would just make it more financially stable from the get go. This money would only allow for later operating hours and give them more financial flexibility.
I guess I wasn't following trolley news up until now, but if "later hours" is only 9pm, then I wonder if that's actually meaningful. Truly useful hours would include after venues let out. Nine o'clock is not terribly better than, say, 7:00, so not getting the money doesn't seem like it will make the trolley operation materially worse, IMO.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Aug 04, 2017I don't know if I lucked into reading the full article accidentally or what, but it says that it wont delay opening; would just make it more financially stable from the get go. This money would only allow for later operating hours and give them more financial flexibility.
Joe Edwards, who chairs the trolley district, said Thursday the extra county dollars would, among other things, allow the trolley to have longer operating hours and thus improve its chances of success.
“It’s really important to have the trolleys operating until 9 p.m. every night,” Edwards said. “As far as financial viability, it improves it immensely.”
I was just imagining how different the loop would be today if they had just used 10% ($5 million) to upgrade Delmar Hall and the Metro Station. Plenty of opportunity for redevelopment of the actual station and surrounding parcels. In my opinion, would've been a much more efficient/beneficial improvement.
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Trolley opponents won't quit. Really, I just don't see what they expect to achieve at this point.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 8a8aa.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 8a8aa.html
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It seems pretty reasonable to say that many aspects of the Trolley could have been done differently. But at this point, it seems like the worst possible outcome is for all of this work to have happened and then we end up with no trolley.
Trolley to open in November.
Two-hour pass costs $2.00.
All-day pass costs $5.00.
11 AM - 7 PM Sunday - Thursday.
11 AM - Midnight Friday and Saturday.
http://www.westendword.com/Articles-New ... ember.html
Two-hour pass costs $2.00.
All-day pass costs $5.00.
11 AM - 7 PM Sunday - Thursday.
11 AM - Midnight Friday and Saturday.
http://www.westendword.com/Articles-New ... ember.html
Good to hear it's opening in 2017 (if for once they are able to achieve an announced timeline).
The prices seem reasonable/appropriate.
The weekday hours of operation leave a lot to be desired. Basically takes the dinner/drinks/music/movie crowd (which is most/much of the Loop's appeal and patronage) out of the equation 5 nights a week. Even just taking it to 9 on Tuesday-Thursday would seem much more accommodating.
The prices seem reasonable/appropriate.
The weekday hours of operation leave a lot to be desired. Basically takes the dinner/drinks/music/movie crowd (which is most/much of the Loop's appeal and patronage) out of the equation 5 nights a week. Even just taking it to 9 on Tuesday-Thursday would seem much more accommodating.
Cannot believe this thread has been around since '05. Can believe we have yet to experience "The Trolley."
http://fox2now.com/2017/11/14/loop-trol ... ntil-2018/
Loop Trolley News Video today on KTVI. The opening will be in January or February. I think this is better anyway. Get the Holiday's pout of the way.
Loop Trolley News Video today on KTVI. The opening will be in January or February. I think this is better anyway. Get the Holiday's pout of the way.
Yesterday's article on STLToday.com was a smorgasbord of ambiguity, vagueness, speculation and non-information!
The prime force behind the long-delayed Loop Trolley is now hoping that the line will open by mid-January or mid-February.
"I'm guessing in two to three months," Delmar Loop businessman Joe Edwards said Monday. "It could be later but it also could be sooner."
In any event, he said, "it won't be November or December."
Why is this even considered newsworthy?
Link to full article:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 47828.html
The prime force behind the long-delayed Loop Trolley is now hoping that the line will open by mid-January or mid-February.
"I'm guessing in two to three months," Delmar Loop businessman Joe Edwards said Monday. "It could be later but it also could be sooner."
In any event, he said, "it won't be November or December."
Why is this even considered newsworthy?
Link to full article:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... 47828.html
I Got the other thought Matguy, opening in dead of winter and miss the holiday crowds is a bad idea in my mind. The perception is bad enough and picking months that will most likely give you less ridership out of the gate instead of more because it its convenient for the trolley people not having to deal with holidays seems like a bad idea.matguy70 wrote: ↑Nov 14, 2017http://fox2now.com/2017/11/14/loop-trol ... ntil-2018/
Loop Trolley News Video today on KTVI. The opening will be in January or February. I think this is better anyway. Get the Holiday's pout of the way.
Same here Dredger. Although now I'm thinking that if they're hoping for a mid-February opening it may not be operational until March or April (based on their usual failure to deliver on announced timelines).
A mid-Feb opening seems like a worst-case scenario from an interest, excitement and ridership perspective. But if it's delayed until April it's warming up, students are still around, the Cards are back in town, Forest Park is in bloom and it could be a good time for the trolley to finally roll out.
A mid-Feb opening seems like a worst-case scenario from an interest, excitement and ridership perspective. But if it's delayed until April it's warming up, students are still around, the Cards are back in town, Forest Park is in bloom and it could be a good time for the trolley to finally roll out.
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Beginning to think this was a awful waste of federal funds a disaster. Shoulda coulda put this downtown but probably be the same result no real start date and more money.
This was ill planned.
Don't get me wrong i was and am for this but what in the world is going on?
This was ill planned.
Don't get me wrong i was and am for this but what in the world is going on?
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I hope persons in power realize that if this project fails, the federal government will not fund anymore St Louis transit projects.
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What are some potential options for Bi-State to step in and salvage something?
For example, a high-frequency trolleybus. The platforms are built and have plenty of space for digital displays, signage, benches, shelters, etc.
I would expect some overhead wire retrofitting and purchasing the busses but would it cost $500k? Even if it did, the busses would bring more riders and more revenue.
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For example, a high-frequency trolleybus. The platforms are built and have plenty of space for digital displays, signage, benches, shelters, etc.
I would expect some overhead wire retrofitting and purchasing the busses but would it cost $500k? Even if it did, the busses would bring more riders and more revenue.
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^addxb2
A single New Flyer Xcelsior XT60 lists for 1.2 million. And I can't imagine the market in used trolleybusses is terribly large. Or that we could get all that much of a volume discount. Nor are there many North American makers. Siemens makes some, but not here.
So . . . yes, I believe it would cost more than 500K to retrofit to trolleybus operation. Much much more. Start by adding a zero. I'm not at all sure you wouldn't have to add two. And in the end this is really a tourist and entertainment project, not a transit project. I don't really see as there's much mission overlap between BiState and Loop Trolley.
A single New Flyer Xcelsior XT60 lists for 1.2 million. And I can't imagine the market in used trolleybusses is terribly large. Or that we could get all that much of a volume discount. Nor are there many North American makers. Siemens makes some, but not here.
So . . . yes, I believe it would cost more than 500K to retrofit to trolleybus operation. Much much more. Start by adding a zero. I'm not at all sure you wouldn't have to add two. And in the end this is really a tourist and entertainment project, not a transit project. I don't really see as there's much mission overlap between BiState and Loop Trolley.
So the trolleybus isn’t a good idea, use regular busses with high frequency.
This is by description a transit project. It’s original intention was to connect residents and visitors to transit stops and economic development opportunities, using a high frequency and accessible ‘circulator’ line. I agree, this is a tourist project, but it wasn’t supposed to be.
The current line, if open today, wouldn’t meet the requirement of the circulator grant. If EWG or BiState wanted to prevent the loss of future transit funding opportunities or a reclaiming of $25million, they do have a role to play.
This is by description a transit project. It’s original intention was to connect residents and visitors to transit stops and economic development opportunities, using a high frequency and accessible ‘circulator’ line. I agree, this is a tourist project, but it wasn’t supposed to be.
The current line, if open today, wouldn’t meet the requirement of the circulator grant. If EWG or BiState wanted to prevent the loss of future transit funding opportunities or a reclaiming of $25million, they do have a role to play.
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I wouldn't be that hard on Joe Edwards. Tim Logan who writes business stories for the Boston Globe and used to work at the Post here just tweeted a link to a Boston Globe story about a contract to extend their Green Line 4.7 miles to Tufts University in Somerville/Medford. The contract is for $1.03 Billion dollars. The total cost for the 4.7 mile extension will be $2.3 Billion when you include new cars, land purchase, etc.
"The federal government will pay about $1 billion of the project, with the state paying most of the rest."
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Tim's Tweet:
https://twitter.com/bytimlogan/status/9 ... 7656243201
Boston Globe Link:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/1 ... story.html
Although it is not comparable to the trolley here, the Green Line does run on streets for a lot of its current route in Boston. This stretch if off-street above ground alongside an existing railroad line.
So while not comparable, $50-$60 million for our trolley does not sound that bad by comparison.
"The federal government will pay about $1 billion of the project, with the state paying most of the rest."
Tim's Tweet:
https://twitter.com/bytimlogan/status/9 ... 7656243201
Boston Globe Link:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/1 ... story.html
Although it is not comparable to the trolley here, the Green Line does run on streets for a lot of its current route in Boston. This stretch if off-street above ground alongside an existing railroad line.
So while not comparable, $50-$60 million for our trolley does not sound that bad by comparison.
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The City, County, or Bi State will get this off the ground. The project is not dead. We are far beyond the point of no return.
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I'm pretty baffled by this. Correct me if my reading comprehension is off, but the article is stating they need 500K to open due to the fact that they hired and are paying all of their operational staff without being in operation and presumably these individuals actually showing up to do a job? How in the hell does that happen? Astounding level of mismanagement.
