For the record, I am a resident along the route as well (apartment building on Clara) and actually want to see a trolley succeed here. But there's zero chance I'd ride it if it operates at 5 mph.
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this seems unlikely. at 15 MPH just the friction between the wheels and tracks would stop it in less than 70 feet. and if that were the case, how did the trolleys manage to stop in traffic back when they were the city's predominant form of transportation? i'm gonna withhold freaking out over this.stlgasm wrote: ↑May 17, 2017Get a load of this, posted on Facebook by Chris Sommers (owner of Pi):
Just learned today that the REAL reason for the Loop Trolley delay is that in first day of testing, they realized that from just 15mph, these sh*tty, 100 year old trolleys take SEVENTY feet to stop. So, when they run in traffic lanes, they can't stop. Like at all.
Potential solutions are to run the trolley cars at FIVE mph the entire route, or totally overhaul the cars. They don't have money for the latter. The delay is now indefinite.
Well done, STL. Well done!
Meanwhile, check out the MODERN streetcars in Cincy, KC, Milwaukee and virtually every other city. They get it. We don't. Because we can't have anything nice. And we want to live in the past. Ding, Ding.
this seems unlikely. at 15 MPH just the friction between the wheels and tracks would stop it in less than 70 feet. and if that were the case, how did the trolleys manage to stop in traffic back when they were the city's predominant form of transportation? i'm gonna withhold freaking out over this.
[/quote]
According to Chris Sommers:
Came from a reliable source who was told this directly by Loop Trolley team.
Let's see if the news media picks up on this.
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Ehh... I don't believe this. Yes this project is heavily delayed and is a CROCK, however these trolley cars do not need 70 feet to stop. I will safely convince myself that these planners had the intelligence to make these measurements etc. Also, I don't think anyone actually looked to this as an actual transport solution? So I don't understand the anger or comparison to other streetcar lines. I was pretty convinced this was only built for tourist purposes and nothing more. I actually don't even believe the track gauging on the loop line can support a modern streetcar if I recall correctly. Either way, I would just like this project to be finished. They should just open the line with the two functioning streetcars and introduce the others at a later date. This isn't that hard.
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Chris, I think it's really irresponsible of you to present this the way you did. As I posted on your site, "I heard from a guy who heard from a guy" is not journalism. You present Sommers' comment as if it were fact and didn't even attempt to contact anyone for verification. C'mon. I know your trying to build a brand and get "scoops" and everything, but have some integrity.
yes, let's turn everyone more against this project based on unverified, third-hand information. i have little confidence that the local media will approach it impartially.urban_dilettante wrote:Chris, I think it's really irresponsible of you to present this the way you did. As I posted on your site, "I heard from a guy who heard from a guy" is not journalism. You present Sommers' comment as if it were fact and didn't even attempt to contact anyone for verification. C'mon. I know your trying to build a brand and get "scoops" and everything, but have some integrity.
I didn't take it as fact. I took it for what it is, information.
This is pretty hard to believe. Like the company that renovated the cars didn't test the brakes before they shipped them out? Come on.
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I just sent the link to the Loop Trolley Co. They responded by saying basically that the article shared here is "completely false and fabricated information" they also added it would be illegal for Loop Trolley to operate untested vehicles on an active roadway as it would be a threat to public safety. They also said the vehicles will "most definitely" operate faster than 5 MPH, as that speed would also present a traffic hazard. This article is basically trash.
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I don't care if it is trash or not. They should clarify what is going on then leave it up to rumor. The only part of the story that is false is the breaking part. All other parts have been clarified by other sources that are official. The fare I heard about on KSDK a while back. Quite frankly, it's not my job to please Loop Trolley. If they have an issue, they can bring it up with me.Chalupas54 wrote:I just sent the link to the Loop Trolley Co. They responded by saying basically that the article shared here is "completely false and fabricated information" they also added it would be illegal for Loop Trolley to operate untested vehicles on an active roadway as it would be a threat to public safety. They also said the vehicles will "most definitely" operate faster than 5 MPH, as that speed would also present a traffic hazard. This article is basically trash.
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Also, don't share quotes from a business owner anywhere that can cause issues (like mine). It only causes problems. I also updated the story to include the word rumor and even put my three news sources down that I made to create the story. So it's not false.
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But this is silly. If it's not your responsibility to please them, why is it their responsibility to hold a press conference to debunk every random rumor that finds its way onto social media? Nobody's got time for that.
urban_dilettante wrote:But this is silly. If it's not your responsibility to please them, why is it their responsibility to hold a press conference to debunk every random rumor that finds its way onto social media? Nobody's got time for that.
Not a press conference. A simple tweet or short FB post works to. Either way, if I have time to address the issue that was made out of my story, then they have time to do something similar.
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No, you originally presented Chris Sommers' quote as if it were factual, under the headline "The Failed Loop Trolley Project". It's totally fine if that's how you feel about it, just make sure that you clearly separate opinion from fact.chriss752 wrote: I didn't take it as fact. I took it for what it is, information.
Not sure how you know how much time they have, but while you're looking for a story, they're not looking to get into twitter arguments with every random social media "journalist" that wants to make a story out of them. Not their responsibility.chriss752 wrote: Either way, if I have time to address the issue that was made out of my story, then they have time to do something similar.
No, it was not factual. The title existed for a long time in my draft folder. I was working on it for a while and this popped up so I decided to throw it in. It has been updated to say rumored after the quote. No one would argue with the Trolley Company about something like this if it were put out over Twitter.urban_dilettante wrote:No, you originally presented Chris Sommers' quote as if it were factual, under the headline "The Failed Loop Trolley Project". It's totally fine if that's how you feel about it, just make sure that you clearly separate opinion from fact.chriss752 wrote: I didn't take it as fact. I took it for what it is, information.
Not sure how you know how much time they have, but while you're looking for a story, they're not looking to get into twitter arguments with every random social media "journalist" that wants to make a story out of them. Not their responsibility.chriss752 wrote: Either way, if I have time to address the issue that was made out of my story, then they have time to do something similar.
Just because I wrote a hit piece doesn't mean people need to take it seriously. Most of it is real information. The only thing that made everyone get bent out of shape is the Chris Sommers part. For Christ Sake, let it go and move on from my story. Opinion is simply opinion. It is a failure. Behind schedule, over budget, not a development promoter, not for locals, a novelty and fares?!?! I mean seriously. We would be better off having a Streetcar connecting Central West End to Downtown.
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I feel most of us are just miffed at how you presented this story as fact. The way you wrote the article, its very much portrayed as factual. No one is angered by your opinion, I just don't think it's fair or justified for you to bash this project so mercilessly. This isn't even a hit piece. It's just a very poorly written editorial.chriss752 wrote:Just because I wrote a hit piece doesn't mean people need to take it seriously. Most of it is real information. The only thing that made everyone get bent out of shape is the Chris Sommers part. For Christ Sake, let it go and move on from my story. Opinion is simply opinion. It is a failure. Behind schedule, over budget, not a development promoter, not for locals, a novelty and fares?!?! I mean seriously. We would be better off having a Streetcar connecting Central West End to Downtown.
Just keep in mind that these types of rumors could legitimately 'derail' a project. If this story got attention, you could have killed this attraction before it even opens. Shame on you, honestly.
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Chris. I like what you're doing and we need more of it. BUT I encourage you to take a step back and ask yourself 1) am I providing anything new to this dialogue, or am I just compiling information. Offer a new product for urbanism in St. Louis. 2) How does this effect me going forward as a professional? You seem motivated and knowledgeable, but the last thing you want is to be skipped over for a Development or planning position in a few years because your making rough claims or attacking anyone on UrbanSTL. BUT like I said I like what you're doing and I wish more young adults saw opportunities the way you do!
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Like I said, it is an opinion piece. Thankfully, my site gets no more than 200 views daily. Also, it isn't featured on the homepage, in order to find it, you have to search around on the site. Now, regarding the Shame on You Part, it isn't going to be a shame on you situation due to the large amount of tourists who will never even see my story. So it is basically not that big of a dealChalupas54 wrote: I feel most of us are just miffed at how you presented this story as fact. The way you wrote the article, its very much portrayed as factual. No one is angered by your opinion, I just don't think it's fair or justified for you to bash this project so mercilessly. This isn't even a hit piece. It's just a very poorly written editorial.
Just keep in mind that these types of rumors could legitimately 'derail' a project. If this story got attention, you could have killed this attraction before it even opens. Shame on you, honestly.
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1. I am trying to pull out the good, bad and the ugly that goes on here in St. Louis. That's how I see we can promote a new urban idea. The Trolley is one of those Ugly/Good things that needs help but could be could of improved. I tried hinting at it in this post with a ton of sarcasm, points made in it.addxb2 wrote:Chris. I like what you're doing and we need more of it. BUT I encourage you to take a step back and ask yourself 1) am I providing anything new to this dialogue, or am I just compiling information. Offer a new product for urbanism in St. Louis. 2) How does this effect me going forward as a professional? You seem motivated and knowledgeable, but the last thing you want is to be skipped over for a Development or planning position in a few years because your making rough claims or attacking anyone on UrbanSTL. BUT like I said I like what you're doing and I wish more young adults saw opportunities the way you do!
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2. I don't see it effecting me in my professional life. It's simply opinion. As seen on my site, if it is something serious, I write in a serious manner. The Loop Trolley post was meant to be serious and sarcastic at the same time to provide a opinion to try to improve it before it opens and possibly fails.
3. I don't want to argue or yell at anyone over UrbanSTL as I have, but I am frustrated that people here are not getting my point. It's a touch one to get, I admit that, but to me, the only way to clarify things I say is to respond to comments both bad and good on my site, twitter or here.
To Everyone where,
I don't intend to destroy this project at all. This story was basically a large bunch of tough love. I want it, but it needs to be improved. My hope is that the rumor of a 5MPH Trolley is false. If that's the case, great. If the Rumor of a braking system is wrong, even better.
I hope this lengthy post clarifies my position on the trolley. If anything else needs to be clarified, I'll answer back but probably not over his forum page, over Personal Message if possible.
Here's a pretty funny spoof promo about the newly-opened Detroit QLine streetcar. Evidently, even a "modern" streetcar can't avoid harsh criticism. At least they have a sense of humor about it:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EF1o7HQGVVs&sns=fb
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EF1o7HQGVVs&sns=fb
I like that video. Its fun, now that is Detroit and I have never heard of the QLINE.
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As much as I'm excited for the Loop Trolley i sincerely wished this were Downtown more than anything else.. You could have two separate lines Downtown the vintage line and the modern line both would be huge economic engines for downtown and as much as I'm for metro link expansion i think having a true street car system in the area wouldn't just only benefit the city but it would benefit the region. While the vintage line will be exclusive only to the city the modern line would be city and county... Sorry thats my little visual and fantasy anyways however many delays they need to get the trolley functioning properly should be worth the wait and will surely be a tourist draw and perhaps spur more development points north east south.
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Chris, let me add that I also appreciate what you're trying to do and I wish you luck in becoming the next Alex Ihnen.chriss752 wrote: ↑May 17, 20173. I don't want to argue or yell at anyone over UrbanSTL as I have, but I am frustrated that people here are not getting my point. It's a touch one to get, I admit that, but to me, the only way to clarify things I say is to respond to comments both bad and good on my site, twitter or here.
To Everyone where,
I don't intend to destroy this project at all. This story was basically a large bunch of tough love. I want it, but it needs to be improved. My hope is that the rumor of a 5MPH Trolley is false. If that's the case, great. If the Rumor of a braking system is wrong, even better.
I really don't think anyone is missing the point of your story, and I don't believe anyone is criticizing you for aggregating the issues that have been verified and reported on in the PD (e.g. the low frequency, the fare uncertainty, the delays, the cost overruns, etc.) and then expressing your opinion about them. What bothered us is that, initially, you slipped Sommers' quote in there among the substantiated points and did not acknowledge that it was an unsubstantiated rumor, which made it seem like a Breitbart-esque hit piece instead of a piece of journalism written by someone who cares about the truth. Unless you intend to go the faux news route (which I don't recommend if you want to be taken seriously) you have to be careful about how you present information, even if you believe it to be true. Anyway, I'm not trying to attack you. I really hope your site is successful. Good luck with everything!