urbanSTL

RuskiSTL wrote:^^ Exactly. How many miles of track would be needed just to get through the park? Using google maps if the trolley went by way of the art museum on Fine Arts Dr, it's already 1.3 miles just to the Zoo entrance. Then you have logistical nightmare to get the streetcar out the Hampton exit.

This is all assuming that a trolley in the park is a good idea. Forest Park was originally built to provide a respite from urban living. I'm all for streetcars/trolleys/trains running down most St. Louis streets but I don't think Forest Park is appropriate. Does anyone have a good example of dedicated public transport in a major urban park?

Assuming Zoo paid for an internal system for efficiently getting folks across from South Campus (and major parking zone) to the main North Campus, something that theoretically could be freaking fantastic is something of an internal park streetcar proceeding down Government Dr. away from the Zoo and Fine Arts Dr. with stops at World's Fair Pavilion, Boat House and Muny before looping around the beautiful Pagoda Dr. The entire length from the Mo History would be 2.1 miles. You possibly could even have this as a car-restricted zone to address some of those "urban respite" concerns.

Again, theoretically a blast but likely a difficult challenge to pull off.... for one, a big issue likely would be the Cincinnati Streetcar Too Much Success Challenge... it unexpectedly has been extremely popular on weekends but they only have limited service during that period with two cars running (versus I think 4 running on weekdays) and are having to pass customers by as they are too full. (Hopefully the internal in-fighting will be overcome soon.) Having enough small-capacity, old-timey trolleys to run with decent headways to handle peak times may be difficult, especially balancing against the other times that would be pretty quiet. Anyway, fun to imagine things.

Don't we already have a trolley in Forest Park?

I don't understand the point of calling the forest park and downtown buses trolleys. Everyone knows they are buses. If you got actual trolleys way more people would ride them because they're distinctive and have way less of a stigma.

mjbais1489 wrote:I don't understand the point of calling the forest park and downtown buses trolleys. Everyone knows they are buses. If you got actual trolleys way more people would ride them because they're distinctive and have way less of a stigma.

In STL busses are viewed by many as a means of transportation for only elderly and poor people. By calling it trolley it lessens the stigma and attempts to change that image.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mjbais1489 wrote:I don't understand the point of calling the forest park and downtown buses trolleys. Everyone knows they are buses. If you got actual trolleys way more people would ride them because they're distinctive and have way less of a stigma.

Lots of trolleys are buses.

I don't see the point of laying rail all over FP when people can just use a bus. It's obviously not a poor-person commuter vehicle so what's the stigma?

Oh I fully agree I don't want actual tracks on the ground. Not sure why you can't just use a trolley that has wheels. Not sure how to embed pictures but the first couple pictures you get when you google trolleys are they types of trolleys I imagine would get way more use.

I guess I see the stigma like you do. But I don't see the point of using these "trolleys" downtown and in forest park as ways of de stigmatizing the system. In my experience people just don't use them. I lived downtown for 2 years and I nor any of my roommates used them, and I spend a lot of time in forest park and don't know anyone whose used them.

IMO making them distinctive and look like actual trolleys would lead to them being used way more and take off of some of the stigma. Could even have a metro card required to use them (once gateway cards get off the ground) so way more people would have gateway cards. Maybe I'm wrong, they just don't seem successuful the way they are currently set up from my POV

pat wrote:^Or make CWE the other end point. Extend the trolley through Forest Park weaving around the Muny, Jewel box, fields, and Science Center. Take it up Clayton under Kingshighway around BJC and have it terminate at the CWE Metrolink.

Crazy unnecessary. The obvious route is Delmar to Euclid and down to the Metro station.

mjbais1489 wrote: they just don't seem successful the way they are currently set up

Surely this is actually measurable, somewhere.

Crazy unnecessary. The obvious route is Delmar to Euclid and down to the Metro station.

The entire Loop trolley is crazy unnecessary. Its a tourist trolley. So having it go through Forest Park to hit the tourist attractions makes sense if that's going to be its purpose.

If it is something intended to be used as transit, I wouldn't bother going down Euclid. I would continue down Delmar and have it cut through Midtown to Downtown

Pershing at DeBaliviere to close on Friday.

quincunx wrote:Pershing at DeBaliviere to close on Friday.

At least they got the closure time down to ten days. Would be nice if there were a way out of the neighborhood other than Pershing to Union though.

If only Waterman were open at DeBaliviere, the detour would be easy.
Opening the gate on Clara at Delmar would be easy, physically at least.

They'll give it all a once over just like west of Skinker

quincunx wrote:Operation Mirror Saver: Mission Accomplished

You know, the sidewalks in the Loop are looking pretty rough in general. I wish they would tear up all the sidewalks and replace them with this light gray concrete instead of that signature gross brown gravel-y concrete. I know it's historic and all but it's ugly and St. Louis could use a little less brown. Man I hate brown.

Trees and foliage are going in on DeBaliviere

^Note the new three-story building under construction on the opposite corner.

That's the Adolescent Behavioral Health Center

https://nextstl.com/2016/02/202354/

Well, they are stringing the power cables, and they managed to pull over the pole at the library end of the line. Looks like the triangulation cable broke and the pole failed. Area is fenced off and they cut the pole off...

chaifetz10 wrote:The sidewalks are horrible. They look dirty, grimy, and outdated. Changing to simple concrete sidewalks would make a HUGE difference around downtown, same for updating light poles to something more modern.

not the Missouri pink granite light posts! i like those...

Gates at Clara and Delmar are open....

MTBE wrote:Gates at Clara and Delmar are open....

They've been open since Pershing at DeBaliviere was closed. I assume they'll close again when that work is completed. Whenever that is.