Would that car have even been jacked if this surveillance system was in place?urban_dilettante wrote: ↑Oct 09, 2019Aerial Surveillance Proposal Could Fight St. Louis Crime, But Raises Privacy Concernsurban_dilettante wrote: ↑Oct 25, 2017^ 30-something gunshots just north of Marquette Park a few minutes ago... not so sure it isn't out of control. we need to try something new. i'm a big advocate for https://www.pss-1.com/.
https://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/ae ... y-concerns
i've been advocating for Persistent Surveillance Systems to come to St. Louis for several years now and it appears it might happen if certain alders and paranoid idiots don't f*ck it up. i say we give Alderwoman Rice the job of informing parents that their kids were murdered in a drug-related shootout that could have been prevented but at least they can rest assured that their funeral procession won't be hypothetically monitored by nefarious forces en route to the cemetery. I mean, why try anything in the present that has measurably reduced crime in other cities when we can just hope that improved police-community relations might lead to fewer dead children three generations from now?
Oh, by the way, there was another car jacking around the corner from my house the other morning. Less than a block away. Same street as the double murder a few weeks ago. That jacked car would have been tracked to its destination and the perp arrested if surveillance were in place.
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Possibly. It's hard to say what their intent / need was. It's still possible that someone could carjack and then immediately head across the river into Illinois or know they have to get outside of the city to stop the tracking.
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^^ i'm sure there'll be a (hopefully short) adjustment period before dumb-asses figure it out. but, yeah, the hope is that they'll stop trying.
^ sure, but anything that makes it more difficult for them is a deterrent. and the powerful thing about this technology is that they can follow the perp backward in time–maybe see where he lives or with whom he socializes–which yields more leads than they would otherwise find.
^ sure, but anything that makes it more difficult for them is a deterrent. and the powerful thing about this technology is that they can follow the perp backward in time–maybe see where he lives or with whom he socializes–which yields more leads than they would otherwise find.
Have any specs been released? Some gliding drones could be in the air for a long time and cover an area well outside of the city depending on the altitude and camera capabilities.
How would they stop a crime before it happens? Does it fire lasers at anything that has a facial emotion on tone with minor aggravation?
I can see it stopping someone who has already committed a crime, and that might change the level of overt criminality in the city.
I can see it stopping someone who has already committed a crime, and that might change the level of overt criminality in the city.
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Theory is that most of crimes are committed by a small group of people and this tool gives the city a better chance of solving/catching the criminal so that he/she can’t commit future crimes.
Can anyone speak to the legality of this as evidence? The state had issues with traffic cameras as evidence to issue tickets. I can’t imagine that imagery with no physical identification of a suspect being held in court.
I'm no expert in any of this, but I believe the issue with the traffic cameras was that tickets were issued to the owner of the vehicle, not the driver. The cameras focused on license plate data and weren't looking much at who was in the car.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 10, 2019Can anyone speak to the legality of this as evidence? The state had issues with traffic cameras as evidence to issue tickets. I can’t imagine that imagery with no physical identification of a suspect being held in court.
These cameras alone likely wouldn't be enough to positively identify a perp. But they could, for example, ID gunshots and track the movements of the person who fired it, giving police what they need to intercept him or her. Likewise for carjackers or folks who run from the police. There'd be less need for police chases if they can simply track him from the air. Combined with police work, they could make capture and/or prosection more likely.
Finally, their presence could in theory be a deterrent - knowing that there's less of a chancee to get away from a crime undetected might be enough to dissuade some from trying something in the first place.
-RBB
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^ Yeah, I think you probably couldn't use the video as evidence in a court room, but if the video leads you to a stolen car, murder weapon, stolen merch, or stash of drugs, you have the evidence you need.
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I "think" they cover this in the radiolab... and the idea is that there are a lot of different types of evidence that can be used in a courtroom. The prosecution can use it as substantive evidence, but the defendant can equally call into question the validity depending on how easily visible or interpreted the situation or crime is on a camera miles above the scene.
Just like a character witness could be totally biased, it can be used in a court, but its the defendant's job to call into question their story's validity - same goes for the camera evidence.
Just like a character witness could be totally biased, it can be used in a court, but its the defendant's job to call into question their story's validity - same goes for the camera evidence.
I'm inherently skeptical of giving the state (or, in this case, the City and the vendor) any additional power, especially something akin to the Eye of Sauron (I'm a nerd) to monitor my every move from above and record it for all posterity. However, as someone further upthread pointed out, we already carry such a device on our person nearly every moment of our waking lives, so why not just put one in the sky as well?!?
Political ideology aside, if it will help keep my wife and children safe by making it easier to deter/catch criminals, then I'm cautiously supportive of it. It's a poor substitute for the real solutions (better laws, esp. MO gun laws, and law enforcement; and engaging with one's community to keep the criminals out), but at this point I'll take what I can get.
Political ideology aside, if it will help keep my wife and children safe by making it easier to deter/catch criminals, then I'm cautiously supportive of it. It's a poor substitute for the real solutions (better laws, esp. MO gun laws, and law enforcement; and engaging with one's community to keep the criminals out), but at this point I'll take what I can get.
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One of the things the CEO mentioned on the STLonAir was that they are only allowed by protocol to monitor/record active police reports/calls.
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if you support this email your alders and let them know. obviously it's not the ideal solution but the ideal solution is going to take decades to implement and bear fruit. in the meantime hundreds of people are getting murdered every year in the city, not to mention those who are merely crippled and the property crime.
honestly, your devices share more information about you than this surveillance tech would be able to glean unless they targeted you over a long period of time. the visuals that this thing collects are low-resolution, which is why they need ground-based information in conjunction with the images in order for it to be effective. again, a human being is a single pixel. a car is a couple of pixels. they will not be recording faces or license plates. the power lies in the scale of the coverage and the ability to track forward and backward in time.
honestly, your devices share more information about you than this surveillance tech would be able to glean unless they targeted you over a long period of time. the visuals that this thing collects are low-resolution, which is why they need ground-based information in conjunction with the images in order for it to be effective. again, a human being is a single pixel. a car is a couple of pixels. they will not be recording faces or license plates. the power lies in the scale of the coverage and the ability to track forward and backward in time.
Thanks, Patti.
Surely they must be recording at all times... If they can only record once a call/report has been placed, that would seem to eliminate the backwards looking ability someone describes upthread, i.e. rewind the tape to see where the perp came from, etc. Perhaps he meant to say they can only access recordings pursuant to a request from police? Seems like such a request should require a warrant of some kind, but not an attorney so must admit my ignorance on whether that's actually the case. I need to relisted to that Radiolab episode.
The "we have a protocol" language reminds me of the assurances from Amazon and the like that Alexa/ECHO/whatever only record once the wake words have been spoken, and then don't keep recordings/transcripts of what's said. Which we now know is total BS...
All that said, if there are protections in place and this thing legit works to prevent/police crime, then I say let's give it a try. StL will continue to decline until middle class families believe its a safe place to live.
Thanks,
SB
Surely they must be recording at all times... If they can only record once a call/report has been placed, that would seem to eliminate the backwards looking ability someone describes upthread, i.e. rewind the tape to see where the perp came from, etc. Perhaps he meant to say they can only access recordings pursuant to a request from police? Seems like such a request should require a warrant of some kind, but not an attorney so must admit my ignorance on whether that's actually the case. I need to relisted to that Radiolab episode.
The "we have a protocol" language reminds me of the assurances from Amazon and the like that Alexa/ECHO/whatever only record once the wake words have been spoken, and then don't keep recordings/transcripts of what's said. Which we now know is total BS...
All that said, if there are protections in place and this thing legit works to prevent/police crime, then I say let's give it a try. StL will continue to decline until middle class families believe its a safe place to live.
Thanks,
SB
WAIT a minute - channel 5's video is from winter - there are no leaves on the trees and such. What is going on here?
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I saw that Public Safety Director Edwards wasn't too keen on the proposal... essentially it was if it doesn't have evidentiary power what's the point. Doesn't sound like this proposal has a lot of energy down at City Hall.
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oh, yeah, totally. what's the point of a bunch of additional intelligence that would be fully funded by donations for three years, could allow the police to intercept crimes in progress and apprehend criminals en route, or could lead them to evidence that would be effective in court (assuming, without justification, that the surveillance footage itself wouldn't be). why even try it? clearly the tech does produce evidence because it's contributed to the prosecution of crimes in Dayton. not sure about Baltimore because i don't know how much it was used there before public paranoia shut it down. (though, to be clear, i am not in favor of implementing it in secret.) and although i hesitate to compare courts here to courts in Juarez, the system was critical in breaking up a drug cartel there.
anyway, this is why i've finally given up. there is NEVER any energy at city hall. there is simply no motivation to improve anything among the city's "leaders". many of them don't actually want anything to change. many of them secure their little fiefdoms by ensuring that things don't change, or they have other agendas that are furthered by throwing the city under the bus. in this case, Jimmy either hasn't bothered to pay attention or he's being disingenuous. he's been completely ineffective at his job. but, as usual, why try anything different? same old sh*t, repeatedly.
anyway, this is why i've finally given up. there is NEVER any energy at city hall. there is simply no motivation to improve anything among the city's "leaders". many of them don't actually want anything to change. many of them secure their little fiefdoms by ensuring that things don't change, or they have other agendas that are furthered by throwing the city under the bus. in this case, Jimmy either hasn't bothered to pay attention or he's being disingenuous. he's been completely ineffective at his job. but, as usual, why try anything different? same old sh*t, repeatedly.
A SLU student has been shot multiple times at the 3949 Lindell Apartments.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 11197968c6
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 11197968c6
^ Small update. Apparently police are now saying her injuries are "undetermined" and are not looking for any suspects. Some of her belongings were also found on top of the garage.
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... op-story-1
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... op-story-1
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I’d say it’s a big update- from shot to what appears to be a suicide attempt if you read between the lines of “no longer looking for a suspect”
Well I have been porch pirated twice in a week. I am so over it.
I can't have packages delivered to work against company policy.
I hate to bother the two elderly neighbors, everyone else I believe works during the day.
I guess I will have to open a P.O. Box.
Any other suggestions?
I can't have packages delivered to work against company policy.
I hate to bother the two elderly neighbors, everyone else I believe works during the day.
I guess I will have to open a P.O. Box.
Any other suggestions?
Are they Amazon packages? You can have them delivered to a hub locker in a retail store. There are maybe 20 or so locker locations in STL city and county.Rooster wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2019Well I have been porch pirated twice in a week. I am so over it.
I can't have packages delivered to work against company policy.
I hate to bother the two elderly neighbors, everyone else I believe works during the day.
I guess I will have to open a P.O. Box.
Any other suggestions?
-RBB
No they were not. Thanks for the info. I did not know about Hub Locker.rbb wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2019Are they Amazon packages? You can have them delivered to a hub locker in a retail store. There are maybe 20 or so locker locations in STL city and county.Rooster wrote: ↑Dec 09, 2019Well I have been porch pirated twice in a week. I am so over it.
I can't have packages delivered to work against company policy.
I hate to bother the two elderly neighbors, everyone else I believe works during the day.
I guess I will have to open a P.O. Box.
Any other suggestions?
-RBB
I live in a very middle class neighborhood and I have a friend that drives for UPS and he says in the higher income zip codes the pirating is off the charts.