urbanSTL

We're now at 165 and if we do indeed surpass 200 thats beyond embarrassing and shameful! I'm all for supporting the police however whatever their strategy to fighting crime is isn't working by any means.
of course a lot of it has to do with possible witness's that have knowledgable evidence on who committed the crimes but aren't willing to work with the police which in itself makes their jobs a lot harder and stressing.
It's a job that no one wants in the city.
The city needs a police department thats going to work for the city so whoever the next police chief will be really needs to engage with the community as soon as possible.
I support raises for city officers however this is the absolute wrong time to be asking for those raises and i feel they really need to earn the honest trust of all people who not only live in the city but visit the city.

Anyways this crime epidemic is beyond exhausting!

BellaVilla wrote: ↑

Oct 24, 2017

Apparently a man and a woman were shot and killed on a motorcycle in Carondalet late last night.

well, not exactly, but the local news doesn't concern itself with details.

the man and woman were found dead next to a motorcycle that was reported stolen back in September and the gunman fled the scene. given that their motorcycle was stolen, i would guess that they were involved in something shady. if you get involved in shady sh*t in St. Louis your odds of getting murdered are pretty high. if you don't get involved in shady sh*t you're most likely going to be fine.

With 9 weeks and only 35 murders to go, eclipsing 200 looks like a foregone conclusion. One or two active weekends and it’ll easily happen. It is embarrassing. Shameful. And a disgrace. The bigger problem, imo, is that there’s no sign of it slowing down. 2013 – 2017: 120, 159, 188, and now likely +200.

As far as the vibe for city-dwellers, I suppose that will vary widely. Not a native, but lived in STL City ~15-years. I live in an areas with a lot of lifers. Overwhelming feeling is crime hasn’t seemed this bad for a long, long time. Very negative vibe. This is from people who are multi-generational city-dwellers and will never move. Not a good feeling at all.

Agree that timing of Proposition P is poor. The sentiment that I see is those are supportive of the cops feel as though they’re taxed to death. Very high sales tax in the city. And this is on the heels of some large property tax increases earlier this year. I think Prop P will have a very difficult time passing.

Also agree that conduct often leading indicator as stated above – but far too often the innocent are preyed upon as there’s little fear of being caught. Car-jacking 2x in last 9 months just blocks from our house. Supposedly one of the safest neighborhoods. It is ominous. I can’t imagine those who are trapped in poor/crime ridden neighborhoods feel like.

STL City is in a vicious-cycle. And it is getting worse. It cannot solve its own problems. An external event, or 3rd party is needed to transform what **could** be a great place.

^ I know a lot of folks have a sense that crime is out of control even by recent standards but that really isn't the case citywide... south city for example has had a significant drop in homicide compared to last year. And overall violent crime is way down in many neighborhoods as well. That isn't universal in south and central corridors, of course, as things vary neighborhood by neighborhood, but in general North City continues to see an increase, and a higher citywide percentage, in violent crime.

Also, fwiw, we may indeed surpass 188 or even 200 homicides by the end of the year, but that is far from certain; November and December historically are months with relatively low homicide. We're slightly ahead of last year's pace but same as 2015. Of course even if we don't, that's still unacceptable.

^ 30-something gunshots just north of Marquette Park a few minutes ago... not so sure it isn't out of control. we need to try something new. i'm a big advocate for https://www.pss-1.com/.

BellaVilla wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2017

Very interesting, but it sounds like a 5th amendment violation

I don't see how? This is equivalent to using street cameras as they do in other cities (i.e. Detroit), just on a larger scale.

kipfilet wrote:

BellaVilla wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2017

Very interesting, but it sounds like a 5th amendment violation

I don't see how? This is equivalent to using street cameras as they do in other cities (i.e. Detroit), just on a larger scale.

it's not. and the resolution of the PSS system is such that it can't read license plates, distinguish faces, etc. a car is a few pixels on a screen and a person a single pixel. it works in conjunction with information on the ground. so, yeah, if somebody really wanted to track you from your house to your illicit lover's house and had access to the data they could do it, but they could do the same thing by following you in a car, etc. IMO the benefits of this technology for St. Louis at this point in time FAR FAR FAR outweigh concerns over privacy.

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2017

kipfilet wrote:

BellaVilla wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2017

Very interesting, but it sounds like a 5th amendment violation

I don't see how? This is equivalent to using street cameras as they do in other cities (i.e. Detroit), just on a larger scale.

it's not. and the resolution of the PSS system is such that it can't read license plates, distinguish faces, etc. a car is a few pixels on a screen and a person a single pixel. it works in conjunction with information on the ground. so, yeah, if somebody really wanted to track you from your house to your illicit lover's house and had access to the data they could do it, but they could do the same thing by following you in a car, etc. IMO the benefits of this technology for St. Louis at this point in time FAR FAR FAR outweigh concerns over privacy.

Sure, but how does that violate the 5th amendment, that's what I was asking in my post. Is there any landmark case that goes beyond the original text that would make this type of surveillance illegal?

kipfilet wrote:Sure, but how does that violate the 5th amendment, that's what I was asking in my post. Is there any landmark case that goes beyond the original text that would make this type of surveillance illegal?

BellaVilla wrote: I'm not sayind that I don't want the tech or that it wouldn't be very useful. I'm just saying there may be some precedent based on the supreme court rulings that came out post-Snowden about mass surveillance.

I think that if the STLPD started flying planes over the city constantly snapping photos the ACLU would be on that like white on rice.

true. not sure if the Snowden stuff would have any bearing on this, but this tech has been used/is being used in Dayton and Baltimore (among others?) so it's not like there's no U.S. precedent. based on their website, it looks like PSS is doing everything possible to assuage fears of abuse. PSS is a pretty small operation, too. they're not some huge military-industrial juggernaut or anything (not that they would need to be to misuse the data but it seems less likely...)

This app looks really cool for walking in areas where you may not feel safe. You hold your finger on the screen until you get to a safe place. Then release it and enter a pin. If you release your finger during your walk and don't enter a pin, it calls the police.

https://www.safetrekapp.com/

BellaVilla wrote: ↑

Oct 24, 2017

Hey all! Not my first post I had trouble with my acct so had to create a new one.

Apparently a man and a woman were shot and killed on a motorcycle in Carondalet late last night. If this pace keeps up StL could see 200 homicides for the first time since 1995. I know that StL gets misrepresented in crime statistics, but 200 homicides is really out of control. A few years ago the StLPD left the control of the state and the policing districts were re-drawn. Iirc its was lauded at the time as giving police an edge in the fight against gun crime. I'd say the midterm results have been horrendous.

I don't live in the city. Rural southren illinois actually, but I visit regularly for shopping, food, entertainment etc, and I've rarely, if ever, felt unsafe.

From people who live in the city what is the general vibe right now? Is their a heightened awarenes? I'm sure the murder of the elderly Gentlemen from NY on Juniata St earlier this year had some effect.

Thanks, Sam

Just a couple thoughts... City gaining control over police from the state I think is something that can be looked at -- what, if any, fundamental strategies were made -- but the hefty increase in homicides and shootings the past few years in Kansas City, where the police remain under state board control, likely means other factors are more at play.

As for the general vibe, as I mentioned above I think the mood varies a lot; some people are definitely more concerned while others not. With respect to January's tragic homicide in TGS, (I used to live right across the street a few years back and now a couple blocks away) I don't think it had too much broad community impact other than just a general reminder that even if rare no urban neighborhood really is immune from senseless violent crime. During the aldermanic election earlier this year, a former alderwoman tried to make crime fears a big issue but was soundly defeated by the incumbent.

As a resident of the neighborhood for more than a decade, I think I have a pretty good grasp of things when I say that it isn't any more violent now than in the past. (fwiw, violent crime was down 25% through September and shootings down 32%. Also down in nearby nabes like Shaw, TGE & Gravois Park while up a bit in some others.) .

I'm not the biggest supporter of Prop P, but those who I know who plan on voting yes are oftentimes doing so as a result of stories like this. I increasingly feel like no political leaders are willing to actually address all facets of this issue. Yes, we have a storied history of racism, our police department has a LONG way to go to get back in the good graces of many within the community, and we do not seem to place as much emphasis on prevention as we do addressing a problem after it occurs. One could argue that much of the crime here is largely due to these and other issues. However, while we need to address and progress, what do we do in the meantime? How do we get these young guys to understand there are other ways to address their frustrations? Just this week in Shaw (my neighborhood), there have been 2-3 DIFFERENT reports of gunfire. I'm not sure how much longer this will continue to slip under the radar. I plan on writing and calling elected officials on a weekly basis until I hear a plan that makes sense without bankrupting the poor communities in our city.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... e-featured

I’m surprised Prop P isn’t being marketed like this....Want better police? Vote yes on prop P. Want more of the same? Vote no on prop P.

^ i'm undecided on Prop P, but I don't see how passing it guarantees better police or anything different. compared to cities of similar size/demographics (e.g. Cincinnati) we're already over-policed, and our crime problems were just as bad when the county wasn't paying their officers more. we need new leadership and an entirely different strategy, not just more cops.

First, I'm not sure why throwing more money at the problem fixes it. Second, even if more money is needed we can't come up with a more reasonable way to get it than heaping sales tax upon sales tax?

STLPD is already giving out a ridiculous amount of overtime and besides throwing money at deep rooted problems never solves the ongoing everyday epidemic that continues to plague St.Louis city.
Sorry if people on here don't like the use of the word epidemic however a city of barely 300,000 residents should never be reaching near 200.
We should be comparing ourselves to Cincinnati or the likes of Wichita or any city with comparable populations and I'm not talking region clearly the high crime problems are mostly in the city.
STLPD and city residents need to come together on all realms of these issues.
Blaming each other never solves anything and people in general are equally guilty of racism its just not the STLPD and discrimination isn't just bind by color.
Why don't the city leaders have the largest meeting ever in the dome with the STLPD and the residents on all of these problems and no screaming and shouting just makes for a hostile situation and more divide.
I believe the STPD and the city residents need each other and need to help each other.

moorlander wrote: ↑

Nov 03, 2017

I’m surprised Prop P isn’t being marketed like this....Want better police? Vote yes on prop P. Want more of the same? Vote no on prop P.

Some might say raising sales taxes (again) to fund basic city services is "more of the same"

Great interview with Judge Jimmie Edwards on KWMU last Thursday. Listen link is at the bottom of this article. I was really impressed with him in this interview. I wish him the very best in his new role and really hope he can help the city turn a corner.

I would love to see the City officers receive the pay and support they need and deserve, but as the owner of a small retail business in the City, I have to oppose Prop P. Our sales tax is simply too high as it is; heck, we just raised the rate at the beginning of October. There's got to be a better way to pay for this.

I’m voting no for the following reasons:
1. Krewson suggested an audit during her campaign. Yet no audit has been completed.
2. We have a large police force (per capita) as it is.
3. We invest a large % of our annual budget to police already. More than most peer communities.
4. The department has shown no signs of trying to understand the concerns of protestors.
5. Sales tax is regressive and bad for business.
6. The status quo isn’t working. If Prop P passes nothing will change. Crime will go down, budgets will balance, and policing will be equitable when the city is forced to make incredibly hard financial decisions. It might be time for that to happen.


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Feel very divided on topic...

Even with insane sales-tax rates, one feels painted into a corner as there are higher $$$ options for City police. Crime is head-line issue and there's a very bad feeling about it, generally.

To me the biggest *miss* from Mayor/BOA & Prop P supporters -- tell me what you're going to do next time the cops 'need' a raise? What is your plan such that you're not going to ask for another .25% or .50% sales tax increase in 12, 18, 24 mos.?

The fact that there's no plan beyond the immediate problem staring us in the face bothers me the most.

Almost anyway you look at it, it's a downward spiral.

169 homicides through October but the geographic divide is starker than ever....

North of Delmar has had an 18% increase over same time last year (134 in 2017 v. 114 last year) while South of Delmar has had a 22% drop. (Central Corridor had 14 each while South City has had 21 this year versus 31 last year.)

I guess there's no prohibition to using police vehicles when campaigning for a raise for yourself?