See link above
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Kind of a mixed bag on the crime #'s:
http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/CRM0013-BY_201604.pdf
Unfortunately we're even ahead of last year's startling homicide pace (57 through April 2016 versus 55 through April 2015) and that remains an urgent crisis, however aggravated assault with a gun is down 15% and overall violent crime down 3%. And property crime is significantly lower, down almost 13%, and so overall crime is also lower, down almost 11%.
On the neighborhood level, Downtown is essentially unchanged in both violent and property crime totals while Downtown West has seen a decent decline in both.
http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/CRM0013-BY_201604.pdf
Unfortunately we're even ahead of last year's startling homicide pace (57 through April 2016 versus 55 through April 2015) and that remains an urgent crisis, however aggravated assault with a gun is down 15% and overall violent crime down 3%. And property crime is significantly lower, down almost 13%, and so overall crime is also lower, down almost 11%.
On the neighborhood level, Downtown is essentially unchanged in both violent and property crime totals while Downtown West has seen a decent decline in both.
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Downtown's numbers weren't that bad last year so remaining the same isn't bad. Downtown West had a bump last year so the drop is welcomed.
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Could someone give me a quick primer on how crimes are categorized in the link a couple of posts up? For example, this happened too recently to be on that report, but my building's garage in DeBaliviere Place was broken into and many people had car windows smashed while someone went through their cars looking but for the most part not finding anything. Is that larceny? And there's only one police report to cover 5 or 6 cars that were broken into. Is that just one crime?
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^ a car break-in with stuff stolen is reported as larceny from motor vehicle... if nothing was taken it might be classified as attempted larceny and vandalism and I don't think counted as a Tier One crime for reporting purposes. An annoyance most definitely but not what the FBI looks at with its Uniform Crime Reporting.
In terms of how to report multiple victims related as part of a single incident/report, police departments were criticized a few years back for commonly reporting them as only one crime; STLPD supposedly now is reporting them as multiple crimes. Or not.
In terms of how to report multiple victims related as part of a single incident/report, police departments were criticized a few years back for commonly reporting them as only one crime; STLPD supposedly now is reporting them as multiple crimes. Or not.
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The FBI is actually very clear about how they should be counted for UCR purposes, so departments are encouraged to comply with that count mechanism in their internal documents.
For crimes against persons, each victim is counted as one offense. The hierarchy rule applies though so if multiple offenses are part of the incident, only the highest ranking offense is counted. The only exceptions are motor vehicle theft and arson, which are counted regardless of being part of another incident.
For crimes against property, each distinct operation is counted. So if the operation was one place and hit three cars, it is one operation.
Finally, attempted offenses are counted as the offense. In the above example, larceny would include theft or attempted theft from the subclass of motor vehicle. The only except to this is homicide, which when attempted but not completed is recorded as aggravated assault. Homicide also does not include suicide, fetal deaths, attempts to murder, and negligent homicides such as automobile accidents even when a DWI/traffic fatality is involved.
Rape also expanded in 2013 to include any non-consent penetration of the anus or vagina by any object or body part, and the non-consent penetration of the mouth by a sex organ. Non-consent does not require force anymore, and rape is no longer a gender-specific offense.
For crimes against persons, each victim is counted as one offense. The hierarchy rule applies though so if multiple offenses are part of the incident, only the highest ranking offense is counted. The only exceptions are motor vehicle theft and arson, which are counted regardless of being part of another incident.
For crimes against property, each distinct operation is counted. So if the operation was one place and hit three cars, it is one operation.
Finally, attempted offenses are counted as the offense. In the above example, larceny would include theft or attempted theft from the subclass of motor vehicle. The only except to this is homicide, which when attempted but not completed is recorded as aggravated assault. Homicide also does not include suicide, fetal deaths, attempts to murder, and negligent homicides such as automobile accidents even when a DWI/traffic fatality is involved.
Rape also expanded in 2013 to include any non-consent penetration of the anus or vagina by any object or body part, and the non-consent penetration of the mouth by a sex organ. Non-consent does not require force anymore, and rape is no longer a gender-specific offense.
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^ thanks much. I see that now... SLMPD tracks attempted offenses like larceny and vehicle theft and counts them as if the crime attempt was successful. So for example with motor vehicle theft through April we have had 859 thefts reported citywide, with 96 of that total being attempted theft and 224 being "joy ride." (Vehicle theft is down 21%, btw.)
http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/CRM0013-BY_201604.pdf
The PD also tracks "simple assaults" in its reports but does not include those in the group totals.
http://www.slmpd.org/crimestats/CRM0013-BY_201604.pdf
The PD also tracks "simple assaults" in its reports but does not include those in the group totals.
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I took a cut at a better way to do crime rankings starting with just a comparison of St. Louis and Kansas City. Here is a copy of my report published on NextSTL last week.
https://nextstl.com/2016/05/better-alte ... nsas-city/
Here are a couple of plots from the report:
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St. Louis vs. Kansas City Crime Data from Zip Codes by Gary Kreie, on Flickr
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St Louis vs Kansas City Crime Inner 10%, 50%, 100% by Gary Kreie, on Flickr
I'm updating my spreadsheet to add Indianapolis and Nashville.
https://nextstl.com/2016/05/better-alte ... nsas-city/
Here are a couple of plots from the report:
St. Louis vs. Kansas City Crime Data from Zip Codes by Gary Kreie, on Flickr
St Louis vs Kansas City Crime Inner 10%, 50%, 100% by Gary Kreie, on FlickrI'm updating my spreadsheet to add Indianapolis and Nashville.
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I wouldn't say "better", but I think this illustrates some important context in comparing cities by crime.
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I don't see any flaws in it, I am just religiously opposed to assigning grades to statistics. They are pretty much all good and bad, when used properly or poorly. For example, you could easily use these statistics to say that KC (or KC suburbia) has worse crime than STL, which would be grossly oversimplifying in its own way.gary kreie wrote:If you wouldn't call this better, what makes it not better, and what do you suggest for a better ranking?MarkHaversham wrote:I wouldn't say "better", but I think this illustrates some important context in comparing cities by crime.
KMOV - 2 Jefferson County men charged in City Museum burglary
http://www.kmov.com/story/32027284/2-je ... m-burglary
http://www.kmov.com/story/32027284/2-je ... m-burglary
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A good read.quincunx wrote:KMOV - 2 Jefferson County men charged in City Museum burglary
http://www.kmov.com/story/32027284/2-je ... m-burglary
Rick Erwin, Director for the City Museum said Wednesday, “they took a number of necklaces and earnings and a tote bag, that was it. Then they just roamed around. I would have stolen something more fun."
After they ransacked the gift shop, the suspects went to the women’s bathrooms.
The City Museum tweeted out four pictures, three showing the suspects and a fourth showing graffiti with the words “free the herb” in the bathroom.
"Embarrassing just because the handwriting is so bad. I love good graffiti, but this is crummy graffiti," said Erwin.
Sperry Topsiders with sweatpants? Are you 65? https://t.co/tFrc4P0nlL pic.twitter.com/VLOpqqj5GV
— City Museum (@city
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I compared crime in the three cities closest to St. Louis that are in the 1.5 to 3 million range, KC, Indy, and Nashville.
So the most dangerous city depends on how far out you live from city hall.
Ten percent population donuts:
10% St Louis
20% Nashville
30% Nashville
40% Indianapolis
50% Kansas City
60% Nashville
70% Kansas City
80% Kansas City
90% Kansas City
Full Metro Area: Indianapolis
![]()
Four_Midwest_Cities_Crime by Gary Kreie, on Flickr
So the most dangerous city depends on how far out you live from city hall.
Ten percent population donuts:
10% St Louis
20% Nashville
30% Nashville
40% Indianapolis
50% Kansas City
60% Nashville
70% Kansas City
80% Kansas City
90% Kansas City
Full Metro Area: Indianapolis
Four_Midwest_Cities_Crime by Gary Kreie, on Flickr- 1,868
I wasn't expecting Nashville to look so much like STL.
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^^ holy crap. that's an enlightening graph, Gary. nice work.
Great work, Gary. On the Metro scale, such information helps St. Louis. However, I also don't see how it would change perceptions that St. Louis city has a major crime problem since inner-city St. Louis has a higher crime rate than the centers of our neighbors.
And update on the tragic shooting on Wash Ave. last week: One suspect in custody and the other suspect shot dead in Washington Park.
Story: http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article80164322.html
And update on the tragic shooting on Wash Ave. last week: One suspect in custody and the other suspect shot dead in Washington Park.
Story: http://www.bnd.com/news/local/article80164322.html
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How will this latest senseless act of violence shape our downtown?
I admit i was angry and still am these 2 individuals went downtown with every intention of committing a horrifying crime this could have been anyone.
The biggest victim of all this was the 9th month old little girl who will now grow up without her mother and someday find out where her mommy gone too.
I don't feel sorry for either suspect they are both scum.
This doesn't effect Downtown but all of us we need to look at the bigger picture of keeping all people in the region safe including those who come here to be tourist or think about making St.Louis their new home
Downtown is the pulse and if its being attacked by criminals then they are attacking all of us and our every inch of progress of making St.Louis a better place.
I admit i was angry and still am these 2 individuals went downtown with every intention of committing a horrifying crime this could have been anyone.
The biggest victim of all this was the 9th month old little girl who will now grow up without her mother and someday find out where her mommy gone too.
I don't feel sorry for either suspect they are both scum.
This doesn't effect Downtown but all of us we need to look at the bigger picture of keeping all people in the region safe including those who come here to be tourist or think about making St.Louis their new home
Downtown is the pulse and if its being attacked by criminals then they are attacking all of us and our every inch of progress of making St.Louis a better place.
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Downtown is under policed and small infractions and ordinances are not enforced. It leads to a sense of chaos and enabling environment that leads to these types of acts.
Does downtown have a crime problem? Yes.
Is downtown dangerous and to be avoided? No.
However I am not surprised this happened downtown.
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Does downtown have a crime problem? Yes.
Is downtown dangerous and to be avoided? No.
However I am not surprised this happened downtown.
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I'm suspicious of the attitude that small infractions lead to larger ones. Like people are constantly saying "oh, I didn't get ticketed for parking by a fire hydrant, guess I'll go murder some ladies."
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It's natural progression. I can get away with this, what can I get away with next. In addition, you combine multiple minor infractions that comes together simultaneously on the weekends and you get chaos.
Come down at 11pm Sat night, dude.
And race has completely clouded our judgment between what right and wrong.
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Come down at 11pm Sat night, dude.
And race has completely clouded our judgment between what right and wrong.
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Seeing more and more cameras going up with the police flashing lights to let you know they're watching. Delmar and Skinker. Delmar and Des Peres. DeBaliviere and Pershing. Manchester in the Grove.
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That's exactly the formulation of the theory I find least convincing: that misdemeanors are the gateway drug to mass murder.downtown2007 wrote:It's natural progression. I can get away with this, what can I get away with next. In addition, you combine multiple minor infractions that comes together simultaneously on the weekends and you get chaos.
Having said that, we should still police minor infractions for their own sake. But I don't think that 10 citations for broken taillights = 1 prevented shooting.
Yup, on a Sunday night. The Sunday evening cruising and guys riding rice rockets at high speed is out of control downtown and has been so for years.downtown2007 wrote:However I am not surprised this happened downtown.
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Not necessarily taillight infractions. Speaking of loud stereos, speeding motorcycles, cruising, parked in no parking, public drinking, drug dealing, panhandling.MarkHaversham wrote:That's exactly the formulation of the theory I find least convincing: that misdemeanors are the gateway drug to mass murder.downtown2007 wrote:It's natural progression. I can get away with this, what can I get away with next. In addition, you combine multiple minor infractions that comes together simultaneously on the weekends and you get chaos.
Having said that, we should still police minor infractions for their own sake. But I don't think that 10 citations for broken taillights = 1 prevented shooting.
Combine all them at once and you have a mess.
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