Similar situation a couple of months ago without the gunshots. A huge fight broke out in the streets, must have been 30+ people and I was waiting to hear the guns but luckily never happened. Ten14 days are numbered.
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I thought I heard yelling and screaming in the middle of the night. Ugh. This is why I moved away from Lure/Lucky's.
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Whenever stuff like this happens (I didn't hear it) call this guy: http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/dps/dps.htm#excise
Kraiberg doesn't put up with crap. If he gets a bunch of calls about this place, they'll lose their liquor license so fast they won't know what hit them.
Kraiberg doesn't put up with crap. If he gets a bunch of calls about this place, they'll lose their liquor license so fast they won't know what hit them.
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Whenever stuff like this happens (I didn't hear it) call this guy: http://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/dps/dps.htm#excise
Kraiberg doesn't put up with crap. If he gets a bunch of calls about this place, they'll lose their liquor license so fast they won't know what hit them.
I'll be calling him tomorrow. I would have no problem with the crowds if they didn't, oh, you know, bring out guns. And fight loudly in the street at 3 am.
This place has been getting worse over the last several months. This is the second incident involving gun fire in less than 2 months. I love an urban environment with lots of action, however when the fights and guns come out on a consistent basis I have a problem.
If you are a nearby resident and share this concern please take a moment and e-mail our local alderwoman Phyllis Young and let her know you are concerned and want to know what residents can do to take action!!! You can e-mail her through this website.
http://stlcin.missouri.org/alderman/alderman.cfm?Ward=7
Also here is an interesting link to a youtube video of a fight at Ten14 last year, this is nothing compared to what has been going on recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdRYALkAr_A
If you are a nearby resident and share this concern please take a moment and e-mail our local alderwoman Phyllis Young and let her know you are concerned and want to know what residents can do to take action!!! You can e-mail her through this website.
http://stlcin.missouri.org/alderman/alderman.cfm?Ward=7
Also here is an interesting link to a youtube video of a fight at Ten14 last year, this is nothing compared to what has been going on recently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdRYALkAr_A
It seems as though the nights when things go crazy at TEN14 are Thursdays and Sundays... I'm wondering why...Are these under 21 event nights or something? We are usually in bed long before closing time. Sometimes the fracus wakes us up and sometimes it doesn't. If these are under 21 nights, I wouldn't think complaining to the excise commissioner would do any good.
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vollum wrote:It seems as though the nights when things go crazy at TEN14 are Thursdays and Sundays... I'm wondering why...Are these under 21 event nights or something? We are usually in bed long before closing time. Sometimes the fracus wakes us up and sometimes it doesn't. If these are under 21 nights, I wouldn't think complaining to the excise commissioner would do any good.
It wouldn't hurt.
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Seems to me if it's under 21 nights that would be the easiest to shut down once there's been some complaints.
vollum wrote:It seems as though the nights when things go crazy at TEN14 are Thursdays and Sundays... I'm wondering why...Are these under 21 event nights or something? We are usually in bed long before closing time. Sometimes the fracus wakes us up and sometimes it doesn't. If these are under 21 nights, I wouldn't think complaining to the excise commissioner would do any good.
http://www.ten14.net/
Thursdays are "Thirsty Thursdays"
-Free bottle beer from 10 to ?
-$1 well and other specials all night
-18 to enter, 21 to drink
They don't list any Sunday events and the Calendar link is not working.
The programming at Ten14?
Move your ass to Chesterfield then!
That's a rebelliously NIMBY position and it's also reminiscent of the argument that video games like Doom or music like Marylin Manson provoked Columbine.
If you have a problem with guns, liquor, and violence then figure out a solution beyond telling clubs to change their programming and moving the blacks back to North City. Why don't you erect a yuppie wall around downtown and move everything out that offends you?
Move your ass to Chesterfield then!
That's a rebelliously NIMBY position and it's also reminiscent of the argument that video games like Doom or music like Marylin Manson provoked Columbine.
If you have a problem with guns, liquor, and violence then figure out a solution beyond telling clubs to change their programming and moving the blacks back to North City. Why don't you erect a yuppie wall around downtown and move everything out that offends you?
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dweebe wrote:vollum wrote:It seems as though the nights when things go crazy at TEN14 are Thursdays and Sundays... I'm wondering why...Are these under 21 event nights or something? We are usually in bed long before closing time. Sometimes the fracus wakes us up and sometimes it doesn't. If these are under 21 nights, I wouldn't think complaining to the excise commissioner would do any good.
http://www.ten14.net/
Thursdays are "Thirsty Thursdays"
-Free bottle beer from 10 to ?
-$1 well and other specials all night
-18 to enter, 21 to drink
They don't list any Sunday events and the Calendar link is not working.
Free beer? Damn. That's quite a special.
Why does it seem to me that free beer is a de facto violation of state liquor laws?
I don't quite understand the NIMBY comment, plus the immediate conclusion that people are being racist. On the website is nothing about Sundays, implying that Sundays are not part of their "normal" operations. This can imply that the club is being booked for a potentially different group that is using the club on Sunday nights, nothing more.
People waking up to gunfire is something that does not have to come with city living nor downtown living. Accepting this as normal is a sad commentary on what urban living should be. It is as unacceptable as flat screen tv's being stolen from businesses, and concluding that this, too, is just the price one should pay for doing business in the city.
Until some sort of recent format change, Ten14 has not been a big problem. People are just trying to figure out the source of the change that has precipitated the uptick in street fighting, gun shots, smashed windows and other police activity. The management has been working to control this with increased "rent a cop" presence, that, obviously, is not working.
People waking up to gunfire is something that does not have to come with city living nor downtown living. Accepting this as normal is a sad commentary on what urban living should be. It is as unacceptable as flat screen tv's being stolen from businesses, and concluding that this, too, is just the price one should pay for doing business in the city.
Until some sort of recent format change, Ten14 has not been a big problem. People are just trying to figure out the source of the change that has precipitated the uptick in street fighting, gun shots, smashed windows and other police activity. The management has been working to control this with increased "rent a cop" presence, that, obviously, is not working.
bonwich wrote:Why does it seem to me that free beer is a de facto violation of state liquor laws?
Other bars do this too. Club Buca, for one; at least according to my girlfriend, who goes there to "dance" - I wouldn't be caught dead in the place.
This has nothing to do with color. This has everything to do with dangerous behavior and businesses being held accountable for fomenting it. There were gunshots in our neighborhood stemming from Lucky's. There was a murder at Club Isis, the same building, 2-3 years back. There were gunshots at Dolce. The same crowd that caused problems on Sundays at Lucky's has now relocated to Ten14. I don't think anyone gives a crap what kind of music is played. We care about the behavior of the clientele a business attracts. If you attract people who spray bullets in our street and put us in danger, you're gonna fix the situation quickly or close the fuk down.Doug wrote:The programming at Ten14?
Move your ass to Chesterfield then!
That's a rebelliously NIMBY position and it's also reminiscent of the argument that video games like Doom or music like Marylin Manson provoked Columbine.
If you have a problem with guns, liquor, and violence then figure out a solution beyond telling clubs to change their programming and moving the blacks back to North City. Why don't you erect a yuppie wall around downtown and move everything out that offends you?
Our lives, the lives of our friends and family, and of our investments are more important than the freedom for you to spill blood in our streets. If you want to put people's lives in danger, do it somewhere away from a mixed-use residential neighborhood. Not here.
I believe that taking action against crime in ones neighborhood is an obligation, and sign of a great community. As some one who loves the urban lifestyle I am willing to live with noise from bars, sirens and other sounds of the city, in fact I am sure I contribute from time to time, however, when it comes to safety and guns being fired on a consistent basis in my community, absolutely NIMBY!!!! A community which would let something like this go has signs of serious problems and is not a place that I would want to call home!!!
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Doug wrote:The programming at Ten14?
Move your ass to Chesterfield then!
That's a rebelliously NIMBY position and it's also reminiscent of the argument that video games like Doom or music like Marylin Manson provoked Columbine.
If you have a problem with guns, liquor, and violence then figure out a solution beyond telling clubs to change their programming and moving the blacks back to North City. Why don't you erect a yuppie wall around downtown and move everything out that offends you?
He says, from the safety of his parents Wildwood basement.
JMStokes wrote:bonwich wrote:Why does it seem to me that free beer is a de facto violation of state liquor laws?
Other bars do this too. Club Buca, for one; at least according to my girlfriend, who goes there to "dance" - I wouldn't be caught dead in the place.
Other bars do a lot of things that aren't legal.
For example - a bar turns the lights on and you have a full bottle of beer. No problem - the bouncer pours it in a "to-go" cup and sends you out the door. BZZZZZ! Illegal.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Doug wrote:The programming at Ten14?
Move your ass to Chesterfield then!
That's a rebelliously NIMBY position and it's also reminiscent of the argument that video games like Doom or music like Marylin Manson provoked Columbine.
If you have a problem with guns, liquor, and violence then figure out a solution beyond telling clubs to change their programming and moving the blacks back to North City. Why don't you erect a yuppie wall around downtown and move everything out that offends you?
He says, from the safety of his parents Wildwood basement.
Actually I work in North St. Louis very near Baden. Vandals attempted to steal my car after two days of ownership. I've also gotten District 2 narcotics to take care of some of the problems on my block so I'm not coming from some overly pie in the sky perspective. We must enforce law and order.
But these places do not attract violent types. They attract people who like to drink, dance, and engage in debauchery. But isn't that what young people should do before they get married and fawn over their IKEA furniture? Some patrons might be violent. You can't blame the club when drinking and partying are glorified throughout our society. The club owner is selling a product and making money. If you have a problem then perhaps you should start a new temperance and anti-gun movement and perhaps address the SLPS issue and don't forget deindustrialization and inner city gangs. Maybe then we can fix these problems. But shutting down one club only allows you to sleep better at night. It's a NIMBY solution. The problem goes elsewhere. Then your neighbor is fighting the club owner and the process continues meanwhile we still have that problem of violence.
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Doug wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Doug wrote:The programming at Ten14?
Move your ass to Chesterfield then!
That's a rebelliously NIMBY position and it's also reminiscent of the argument that video games like Doom or music like Marylin Manson provoked Columbine.
If you have a problem with guns, liquor, and violence then figure out a solution beyond telling clubs to change their programming and moving the blacks back to North City. Why don't you erect a yuppie wall around downtown and move everything out that offends you?
He says, from the safety of his parents Wildwood basement.
Actually I work in North St. Louis very near Baden. Vandals attempted to steal my car after two days of ownership. I've also gotten District 2 narcotics to take care of some of the problems on my block so I'm not coming from some overly pie in the sky perspective. We must enforce law and order.
But these places do not attract violent types. They attract people who like to drink, dance, and engage in debauchery. But isn't that what young people should do before they get married and fawn over their IKEA furniture? Some patrons might be violent. You can't blame the club when drinking and partying are glorified throughout our society. The club owner is selling a product and making money. If you have a problem then perhaps you should start a new temperance and anti-gun movement and perhaps address the SLPS issue and don't forget deindustrialization and inner city gangs. Maybe then we can fix these problems. But shutting down one club only allows you to sleep better at night. It's a NIMBY solution. The problem goes elsewhere. Then your neighbor is fighting the club owner and the process continues meanwhile we still have that problem of violence.
Great! Then we'll send them up your way and you can welcome them with open arms.
The Central Scrutinizer wrote:JMStokes wrote:bonwich wrote:Why does it seem to me that free beer is a de facto violation of state liquor laws?
Other bars do this too. Club Buca, for one; at least according to my girlfriend, who goes there to "dance" - I wouldn't be caught dead in the place.
Other bars do a lot of things that aren't legal.
For example - a bar turns the lights on and you have a full bottle of beer. No problem - the bouncer pours it in a "to-go" cup and sends you out the door. BZZZZZ! Illegal.
Here's why I made the observation: Whenever we ran calendar items in the food section about "free" wine tastings in Missouri, the wine store in question got a visit from liquor control. The smart ones started listing the cost of the tastings as 1 cent. (On a larger scale, it's an example of the Byzantine, inefficient and moronic liquor laws in Missouri, but in any event, if it was considered illegal for wine tastings, it's probably illegal for bars and clubs, too.)
That's nice but the evidence indicates otherwise. Ref:Doug wrote:But these places do not attract violent types.The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Doug wrote:The programming at Ten14?
Move your ass to Chesterfield then!
That's a rebelliously NIMBY position and it's also reminiscent of the argument that video games like Doom or music like Marylin Manson provoked Columbine.
If you have a problem with guns, liquor, and violence then figure out a solution beyond telling clubs to change their programming and moving the blacks back to North City. Why don't you erect a yuppie wall around downtown and move everything out that offends you?
He says, from the safety of his parents Wildwood basement.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdRYALkAr_A
2. Multiple gunshots stemming from Ten14 on Sunday night
3. Another incident in which eyewitnesses saw Ten14 BOUNCERS trying to break up a fight from a distance by yelling at the individuals who were fighting and then pulling out a gun and pointing it at them.
4. A murder outside Club Isis two to three years back
5. Gunshots at Lucky and Dolce
But I thought you just said that Ten14 didn't attract violent types? I'm so confused now.Doug wrote:Some patrons might be violent.
Huh? Guess we'll throw accountability out of the window since drinking and partying are glorified throughout society. Umm, no. Your statement is what is called a red herring -- a diversion meant to distract from the main issue. Any sane community should hold a club accountable for attracting clientele that sprays bullets in its streets.Doug wrote:You can't blame the club when drinking and partying are glorified throughout our society.
Not for long if they don't get their asses in gear.Doug wrote:The club owner is selling a product and making money.
Good work, you've managed to raise multiple red herrings in this section.Doug wrote:If you have a problem then perhaps you should start a new temperance and anti-gun movement and perhaps address the SLPS issue and don't forget deindustrialization and inner city gangs. Maybe then we can fix these problems.
If you wish your rhetoric to be taken seriously, you'll want to avoid this. I'd love to see gangs go away as much as you but I don't see it happening anytime in the near future. In any case, I agree with you that we should uphold law and order by holding entities responsible. I think that would sit well with actual stakeholders downtown -- residents, businesses and other investors.Doug wrote:But shutting down one club only allows you to sleep better at night.
Good, you're finally admitting there's a problem. You, our neighbor in the suburban sprawl of Wildwood, can accept violent behavior with open arms. Problem solved.Doug wrote:It's a NIMBY solution. The problem goes elsewhere. Then your neighbor is fighting the club owner and the process continues meanwhile we still have that problem of violence.