Do people really look at homicides websites that say this or that city is number one? Chicago gets a lot of negative attention in the national media on regards to homicides, but as long as their economy is growing then it doesn't matter. (remember if Chicago reported their crime stats like other cities they would be near the top of the homicide list) In the end only thing that matters is the economy and job growth. However bringing down the homicide rate will help attract jobs and growth.
^ Yes. I love St. Louis and it has a lot going for it, unfortunately not much of the great characteristics get broadcast within or to the outside world, it could be due to the inferiority complex. When a city such as Detroit, STL, are nearly always in the top 5, it's reinforced year after year into peoples minds with an unequal amount of positive press to balance. As far as Chicago, it's the number one city and state that people are fleeing from. I've never bought into the "amazingness" Chicago has to offer just because its bigger.
If Chicago had the same murder rate as St. Louis, they would have had 1350 last year. They had 407, for a murder rate of 15.1.
If "St. Louis" were the inside of 270 on the MO side it would have as much land area as Chicago, have about 900k people, 185 murders in 2014, and a murder rate of 20.5.
If "St. Louis" were the inside of 270 on the MO side it would have as much land area as Chicago, have about 900k people, 185 murders in 2014, and a murder rate of 20.5.
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I agree our rate is far worse then a lot of cities, but I would love to see a comparison of homicides of the 60 sq miles, or cities with larger footprints and see how they compare that would be interesting.
Most of the high violence cities are similar sized to St. Louis, especially when population density is concerned:i,Iive,to,draw wrote:I agree our rate is far worse then a lot of cities, but I would love to see a comparison of homicides of the 60 sq miles, or cities with larger footprints and see how they compare that would be interesting.
Detroit: 142 Sq miles
Oakland: 78 Sq miles
Baltimore: 92 Sq miles
Newark: 26 Sq miles
New Orleans: 170 Sq miles
Cities/areas with much lower murder rates:
Manhattan: 34 Sq. Miles
Boston: 90 Sq. Mile
I don't have time to post more, but the more I look into this, the angrier I get at our stats.
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^ Boston is more like 40 sq. miles when it come to land mass....Pittsburgh and Minneapolis are two other cities with smaller land mass than ours as well as much lower homicide rates. D.C. has almost the exact same land mass but has a much smaller homicide rate.
Two peer cities that I'd also include as "high violence" but benefit from their larger geographical size are Indianapolis and Kansas City, although the latter has made some dramatic improvements this past year. Not sure you can count OKC as a peer since it is a much smaller metro, but like KC this large land mass city has seen a substantial drop the last couple years from some pretty high numbers as well.
On the other end of the spectrum, I see in the larger urban areas of Detroit, Philadelphia and Chicago, the first two cities are reporting raw number homicides are the lowest since 1967 and Chicago the lowest since 1965.
Two peer cities that I'd also include as "high violence" but benefit from their larger geographical size are Indianapolis and Kansas City, although the latter has made some dramatic improvements this past year. Not sure you can count OKC as a peer since it is a much smaller metro, but like KC this large land mass city has seen a substantial drop the last couple years from some pretty high numbers as well.
On the other end of the spectrum, I see in the larger urban areas of Detroit, Philadelphia and Chicago, the first two cities are reporting raw number homicides are the lowest since 1967 and Chicago the lowest since 1965.
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something has to be down about the crime downtown its out of control.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 74fed.html
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 74fed.html
I was just coming here to post this. The notion that the average citizen is unlikely to fall victim to St. Louis' gun crime (which I've said, and is probably still quite true) takes a hit.
More has to be done. I wish I knew what.
More has to be done. I wish I knew what.
I feel leadership dont care CWE is the new downtown did you knowi,Iive,to,draw wrote:something has to be down about the crime downtown its out of control.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crim ... 74fed.html
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Finding the person who did this and smashing his skull with a hammer would be a good start.jstriebel wrote:I was just coming here to post this. The notion that the average citizen is unlikely to fall victim to St. Louis' gun crime (which I've said, and is probably still quite true) takes a hit.
More has to be done. I wish I knew what.
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The problem is all the housing projects around downtown they need to go. The criminals they dwell there now that there is businesses and middle class people there who are pretty much sitting ducks. When the cites razed the highrises projects they should of never allowed the construction of low income housing that close to downtown.
First off I know there is a crime thread, but i made this thread not to report about crime, but to discuses ways crime can be reduced.
I think the city desperately needs about 500 more police officers, in a perfect world the city would have 2000 officers and not only 1200.
I also think the city should slowly tear down the subsidized housing around downtown, by getting rid of the projects it would decentralize the poverty that is there and help reduce crime in the surrounding area.
The next thing we need is much stronger sentencing laws. The current laws are too friendly to criminals. For example person who commits armed robbery should get at minimum 25 years no parole, and all gun related crimes at least 30 years no parole I know this sounds harsh but criminals are harsh people.
These are a couple things that I think will reduce crime any other ideas????
I think the city desperately needs about 500 more police officers, in a perfect world the city would have 2000 officers and not only 1200.
I also think the city should slowly tear down the subsidized housing around downtown, by getting rid of the projects it would decentralize the poverty that is there and help reduce crime in the surrounding area.
The next thing we need is much stronger sentencing laws. The current laws are too friendly to criminals. For example person who commits armed robbery should get at minimum 25 years no parole, and all gun related crimes at least 30 years no parole I know this sounds harsh but criminals are harsh people.
These are a couple things that I think will reduce crime any other ideas????
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Ultimately, if you're going to have low-income people, you're going to have crime somewhere. If you're not reducing systemic poverty, you're not doing much about crime.
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^ Poverty concentration though is an issue.... economic desegregation can help both in reducing systemic poverty and crime and other social ills.
However, I don't know how easily we can say that crime perpetrators downtown are coming from neighboring housing projects. First of all, crime overall isn't that high and second of all from what I recall from media reports from higher profile crimes, perpetrators seemed to be all over from the city, county and metro east.
However, I don't know how easily we can say that crime perpetrators downtown are coming from neighboring housing projects. First of all, crime overall isn't that high and second of all from what I recall from media reports from higher profile crimes, perpetrators seemed to be all over from the city, county and metro east.
There is a 50-50 chance the Thugs were not even from the city most likely ESLroger wyoming II wrote:^ Poverty concentration though is an issue.... economic desegregation can help both in reducing systemic poverty and crime and other social ills.
However, I don't know how easily we can say that crime perpetrators downtown are coming from neighboring housing projects. First of all, crime overall isn't that high and second of all from what I recall from media reports from higher profile crimes, perpetrators seemed to be all over from the city, county and metro east.
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Start a campaign for people to be home by midnight, avoid side streets with no one around, and stay in groups.
Nothing good ever happened after midnight.
The murder of the young DeSmet grad would have never happened if they had stayed in a lighted, populated area.
Some people are just not street smart at all.
This can be done today. Clearing downtown of subsidized housing is a generation or three away.
Nothing good ever happened after midnight.
The murder of the young DeSmet grad would have never happened if they had stayed in a lighted, populated area.
Some people are just not street smart at all.
This can be done today. Clearing downtown of subsidized housing is a generation or three away.
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Is it time to lease the downtown streets to a private enterprise so they could charge a small admission fee to non-downtown residents, reimbursable if you show a parking receipt? Maybe this private company could set up metal detectors, making downtown like six flags or Disney World -- a gun free zone. That may be the only way to get folks to dine downtown now. Otherwise wait a few years and hope downtown killings and the public memory of them fades. And hope downtown doesn't go the way of Gaslight Square in the meantime.
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Gary, I think your're right. I think Downtown is finished for the time being. Too many well-to-do families knew/know this kid/family and are horrified by what happened. It's Boken all over again. I feel for business owners downtown. If Paris can march and show no fear, why can't we organize a march at, say, 1am on a Friday night/Saturday morning right through downtown....it will be called MATH
March Against THugs
March Against THugs
I understand what you are saying but I have to completely disagree. I was at Sidebar (a couple blocks away) the night this happened and didn't leave until midnight-ish. This happened in an area where people should/need to feel safe regardless of time. It is surrounded by restaurants, bars, residents, and a huge attraction (City Museum).Northside Neighbor wrote:Start a campaign for people to be home by midnight, avoid side streets with no one around, and stay in groups.
Nothing good ever happened after midnight.
The murder of the young DeSmet grad would have never happened if they had stayed in a lighted, populated area.
Some people are just not street smart at all.
This can be done today. Clearing downtown of subsidized housing is a generation or three away.
I understand your point about awareness. I lived in that neighborhood 7 years, but that doesn't excuse this. The city needs to step up to ensure downtown is safe and the courts need to be much tougher on gun crimes.
The real problem is the gun culture ingrained in the young men living in the neighborhoods surrounding DT. It is very real and very scary. You can't solve that issue with more police.
This is tragic. This is sad. This is unacceptable. Violent people, illegal guns, and a lack of respect for human life are going to be the end of us.
Its hard to say without knowing well enough how the current crimes are punished.
I would outlaw hand guns in the city or at least make the punishment for having an unregistered hand gun extremely severe.
From what I've read and heard, a lot of crime is the city is done by repeat offenders, especially violent ones. I would start by making those punishments for violent crimes non-negotiable jail time.
Does anyone think New York's frisking policy a good route?
I would outlaw hand guns in the city or at least make the punishment for having an unregistered hand gun extremely severe.
From what I've read and heard, a lot of crime is the city is done by repeat offenders, especially violent ones. I would start by making those punishments for violent crimes non-negotiable jail time.
Does anyone think New York's frisking policy a good route?
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^ NYC drastically reduced that practice and crime still continued to go down. I'd focus more on targeted efforts on guns and ways to build community trust.
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You disagree that people should be off the streets by midnight and avoid dimly lit, lowly populated side streets?I understand what you are saying but I have to completely disagree.
Whatever. As long as people engage in high risk behaviors they will be victims of crime.
The lack of street smarts is usually the reason a naive kid/visitor ends up dead/shot/mugged.
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I absolutely disagree also. Home by midnight!?!?!? What am i a 90 year old man. Basically your saying we should have a curfew. In a major downtown. We shouldnt be scared to leave the house anytime of the day. If we are then its time we all move somewhere else.
Lack of street smarts. . .Way to blame the victim on this one
Lack of street smarts. . .Way to blame the victim on this one