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PostJan 29, 2015#826

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan ... -krasovic/

This looks to be a dead story, but Andy Strickland is a pretty reliable guy. I wonder if he was fed this info. by someone with an agenda. Interesting nonetheless.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan ... -krasovic/

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PostJan 29, 2015#827

DogtownBnR wrote: By the way, THIS is an awesome concept for public financing:
The team is proposing a 10 percent tax on tickets and a use tax on stadium revenue to fund it, collecting it over a 30-year period.

“If you don’t go, you don’t pay,” Wilt said. “It’s essentially being self-financed through user fees whether it’s a tax on the tickets, the food and beverage so that it’s not a general tax.”
.
exactly like road funding :D

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PostJan 29, 2015#828

It is astonishing that STL finds its way into so many tragic situations.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/09/25/seattl ... ris-hansen

Here's the type of article we can look forward to in a few years. Unfortunately, there is not the peripheral positive energy surrounding STL compared to "boomtown" Seattle.

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PostJan 29, 2015#829

Maybe we'll be reading about how the NFL collapse is finally happening and how lucky St. Louis is not to have a stadium boondoggle on it's hands while the disgusting concussion crisis finishes off football.

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PostJan 29, 2015#830

blzhrpmd2 wrote:It is astonishing that STL finds its way into so many tragic situations.

http://www.si.com/nba/2014/09/25/seattl ... ris-hansen

Here's the type of article we can look forward to in a few years. Unfortunately, there is not the peripheral positive energy surrounding STL compared to "boomtown" Seattle.
Not sure. But the Sonics leaving Seattle ranks up there with the Colts leaving Baltimore, the Dodgers leaving Brooklyn, the NorthStars leaving Minnesota and the Browns leaving Cleveland on the list of sports team moves that shouldn't have occurred.

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PostJan 29, 2015#831

jstriebel wrote:Maybe we'll be reading about how the NFL collapse is finally happening and how lucky St. Louis is not to have a stadium boondoggle on it's hands while the disgusting concussion crisis finishes off football.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostJan 29, 2015#832

^Fair.

That collapse will take a couple of decades at least to get going.

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PostJan 29, 2015#833

That collapse would require a socialist reordering of the American economy and political system.

As long as capitalism is a thing, the NFL ain't goin' nowheya, and probably only stands to increase in popularity.

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PostJan 29, 2015#834

You could be right. But I think otherwise. It's too gruesome of a sport, and we're only on the brink of learning how gruesome. That's going to steer many away from it, but it might take a generation.

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PostJan 29, 2015#835

I don't doubt that you are earnestly disgusted by the gruesome nature of the NFL and what it does to its players, but based on your transformation I've witnessed here over the past month or two, I'd suggest part of this is you're telling yourself that to deal with the reality that St. Louis is about to, again, wind up with egg on its face when it fails in its bid to secure the NFL here.

I don't think there's a way St. Louis comes out on top in this situation. Definitely not short term. Maybe long, long-term. But, probably not.

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PostJan 29, 2015#836

^ I'm not sure how you necessarily "come out on top" by losing an NFL team (although I do believe that that actual impact on even downtown's economy will be quite small short-term and perhaps of a benefit longer term as convention business picks up the slack and some of those parking lots lose their luster) but in all seriousness, the loss could be a wake-up call for leaders to actually get their crap together moving forward.

Detroit hit rock bottom in its image with the bankruptcy but it didn't let that stop it from starting a new chapter in its history by hustling harder. I don't know if we have it in ourselves to do the same in the Ferguson aftermath and with upcoming murder capital headlines and potential NFL loss, but we can if we have the mettle.

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PostJan 29, 2015#837

What else do we lose when the Rams leave....?


http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/nfl/ra ... /22526451/

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PostJan 29, 2015#838

jstriebel wrote:^Fair.

That collapse will take a couple of decades at least to get going.
I don't foresee an NFL collapse: but I do think there will be a slide backwards where it will be not far from baseball, hockey and basketball in popularity.

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PostJan 29, 2015#839

^ I'm still curious as to how popular soccer will become with our increasing immigration and openness to this weird form of sport. How many cities will begin to draw Seattle Sounders level attendance numbers in a decade? Even 16 games at 30,000 each would bring greater attendance than what the Rams have been doing.

It may not get huge national tv ratings but I can see soccer becoming a true 5th national major pro sport.

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PostJan 29, 2015#840

Without the TV money of the other four, I don't ever honestly see that happening.

If there suddenly becomes more of a TV market for MLS, that would be a gamechanger. But I wouldn't count on it. Hockey is having a hard enough time itself.

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PostJan 29, 2015#841

Greatest St. Louis wrote:I don't doubt that you are earnestly disgusted by the gruesome nature of the NFL and what it does to its players, but based on your transformation I've witnessed here over the past month or two, I'd suggest part of this is you're telling yourself that to deal with the reality that St. Louis is about to, again, wind up with egg on its face when it fails in its bid to secure the NFL here.

I don't think there's a way St. Louis comes out on top in this situation. Definitely not short term. Maybe long, long-term. But, probably not.
Nah. This is something I've been saying for 2 or 3 years now. And every year I try to not watch football because of how much I dislike the sport.

And every year my diehard Rams and Illini loyalty (seriously, could I have worse teams??) kicks in and I go back.

But this doesn't have anything to do with the move. In fact, it's the other way around. I'm more okay with them moving because it's a sport I know I shouldn't be supporting, and this will help cut that cord.

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PostJan 29, 2015#842

Greatest St. Louis wrote:Without the TV money of the other four, I don't ever honestly see that happening.

If there suddenly becomes more of a TV market for MLS, that would be a gamechanger. But I wouldn't count on it. Hockey is having a hard enough time itself.
^ Well the league certainly is growing and I believe average attendance per match is on par with NBA and NHL.... a number of venues would probably have to expand to get to 25,000 - 30,000 capacity but it certainly will be something to watch in the coming years. If you get a good 20 cities with strong fan support that should draw increasingly stronger network deals as well.

PostJan 29, 2015#843

moorlander wrote:What else do we lose when the Rams leave....?


http://www.ksdk.com/story/sports/nfl/ra ... /22526451/
This story I think is in need of some fact checking and I believe media should always strive to have non sports reporters do economic impact stories instead of those more closely tied to the sports team. For example, state sales taxes not earned on cokes bought at the stadium will be earned by cokes bought at the movies. Anyway, greater clarity is needed on things like the jock tax and sales taxes on the revenue side but also on police overtime and dome rams specific maintenance costs on the other side.

The jock tax itself is very interesting and I'd like to know how much it actually is bringing in for the city.... as only a small portion of the player's time is spent working in the city, they are only playing a small portion of any earnings tax unless they live here. And here is a pretty cool, timely story out of Cleveland, where two former non-Browns NFL players are suing over the city's jock tax on visiting athletes and it describes the "games played" method that only Cleveland uses versus the less lucrative "duty days" method that apparently the 7 other NFL cities that tax visiting players use.

https://sports.vice.com/article/jock-ta ... illenmeyer

I assume that because Rams players are employed in unincorporated Saint Louis County only a portion of their income is subject to the city's earnings tax as well. I think a benefit of a hearing in the state legislature is that it could produce a solid fiscal note to delve into these things.

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PostJan 30, 2015#844

That staytunedstl episode was a heartbreaker, nobody looks at the big picture on how we spend our money. We're not even getting the full tax benefit of the Rams because our government structure is so screwed up. We're not alone in wasteful spending, but I imagine we're one of the worst and for us to compete globally we can't be. Every dollar matters seems to be the objective and yet how much of our money continues to circle the drain?

We're spending money to try and boost immigration numbers which is a great thing, but where is this new growth going to go? Wentzville? What's being done to combat sprawl? How do we combat sprawl? Let's stop the bad practices as we implement the good ones.

I'm not trying to deflect away from money spent on the Rams but rather get a sense of what our priorities are and where the Rams rank. Can we afford X? How bad do we need Y? How much do we want Z? I bummed that people want send the Rams off to Los Angeles when I know, theoretically, we can have it all with some sacrifice. Sure some wouldn't miss the Rams and would gladly sacrifice them for more money for tech start ups. I'd rather shrink the footprint of our region and have both.

I wish current players lived in or near the city instead of St. Charles as many seem to do. At least Spagnuolo did, and I believe he's still does charitable work here. St. Louis has its fair share of athletes that stick around after their playing days are over, Musial being the most prominent one. Someone should do a piece on athletes retiring here. We don't have a lot of black athletes retire here, it would be nice to retain some. It's not the brain drain but I think there is some value St. Louis could extract from having players stick around. Aeneas Williams seems to like it here, I don't think Ozzie ever left and why is Gibson still in Omaha?

Anyway, the ideal St. Louis that I have in my head is decades away, if ever, but I have The Rams today and I'd like to keep them. 1-15, 6-10, 13-3. Their win-loss record has no bearing on whether I want them or not. It isn't for self-esteem, nor for coping with a region not living up to its potential, but because I like St. Louis Rams Football.

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PostJan 30, 2015#845

Fifteen years ago today, this happened:



Time flies when you've been having fun 8)

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PostJan 30, 2015#846

15 Better Ways to Spend $500 Million Than On A Stadium

http://www.jdandkateindustries.com/lets ... louis.html

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PostJan 30, 2015#847

With "March Madness" right around the corner, we need a bracket for STL development proposals and projects.

First up, which is worse:

N. Riverfront Stadium Plan?

or

Eminent Domain of STL Place neighborhood to relocate the Defense Mapping Agency?

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PostJan 30, 2015#848

This isn't newsworthy, per se, but it is a little interesting if you like to play connect the dots:

Per the blog Newballpark.org which mainly covers the stadium developments in the Bay Area pertaining to the A's & Raiders; but is connected to the Los Angeles stadium developments (because it impacts the Raiders future too).



If you look at the bottom left of the picture, you'll see a schematic of a football field laid out in Dodger Stadium. As Newballpark calls it,
an unintentionally epic piece of trolling
.

Again, if you like to play connect the dots then this may be an additional dot. Or it could be absolutely nothing. Just wanted to share.

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PostJan 30, 2015#849

This shouldn't come to a shock to anybody at this point, but via a couple different two or three steps removed sort of situations, it sounds like it's pretty much a done deal from the Rams perspective that they're leaving.

Obviously things could get in their way, but there's little doubt about their intentions.

The St. Louis task force has some alternative hopes, but they feel like long shots to me. Shovel ready stadium would make them possibilities, I suppose.

PostJan 30, 2015#850

arch_genesis wrote:St. Louis has its fair share of athletes that stick around after their playing days are over, Musial being the most prominent one. Someone should do a piece on athletes retiring here. We don't have a lot of black athletes retire here, it would be nice to retain some. It's not the brain drain but I think there is some value St. Louis could extract from having players stick around. Aeneas Williams seems to like it here, I don't think Ozzie ever left and why is Gibson still in Omaha?
One thing here may just be that football players are less likely to retire to their team's city because a football career is so much more volatile. They're less likely to be in one place for a long-time, and even if they are, they don't necessarily have contracts during that time that allow them to really place down roots.

On the other hand, Cardinals and Blues players put down roots in St. Louis a LOT. I think the Blues have the biggest alumni base in their home town of an American NHL team. But hockey doesn't have a huge amount of racial diversity by any means. Baseball has plenty of diversity, but it doesn't have a ton of Black American's. In fact, the recent trade for Jason Heyward gives the Cardinals their first star-caliber Black American player since...? Maybe Ray Lankford, if he qualifies. (He was always my favorite, and I think he's undervalued because he played in a mediocre era of Cardinals baseball. Oh the tangents I'm on!)

Point being that between the Blues and Cardinals, there haven't been a lot of opportunities for a Black players to choose to retire in St. Louis.

The Rams have had D'marco Farr, Orlando Pace, and Aeneas Williams (as you mentioned) choose to retire in St. Louis, or at least retire partially in St. Louis. Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt both went back to their respective hometowns, but they both remain pretty connected to the community here. So the Rams have had some players. EDIT: It seems Faulk may actually reside near San Diego, where he attended college. He does seem to maintain a presence in St. Louis, though, and may still own a residence here.

And like I said, in football, lesser tier players are less likely to put roots down in a new city because they could be cut at any time. So really only the long-term stars are likely to consider it.

EDIT: I refer to these players retiring in St. Louis, but I think your initial conclusion about where they retire in St. Louis is accurate. It's typically out in the County or in St. Charles County. For example, I just double-checked that my statement about Orlando Pace was accurate, and indeed Wikipedia says he resides in Weldon Springs.

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