urbanSTL

The Titan's stadium will 1) Likely host multiple Super Bowls, 2) Host way more concerts than the Bill's stadium, and 3) It will include a mixed-use district adjacent to the stadium. If we had to build a stadium, I would want the Titan's plan over the Bill's plan all day every day. They also already host a CFB bowl game and probably will host more CFB with the new stadium, not unlike Lucas Oil Stadium.

If you're building an NFL size stadium, you need to maximize it to ensure that you can attract non-NFL events. Tennessee/Nashville's public money is going to go a lot further than New York/Erie County's. 

dweebe wrote: ↑

Dec 17, 2024

Auggie wrote: ↑

Dec 17, 2024

The Titan's stadium will 1) Likely host multiple Super Bowls, 2) Host way more concerts than the Bill's stadium, and 3) It will include a mixed-use district adjacent to the stadium. If we had to build a stadium, I would want the Titan's plan over the Bill's plan all day every day. They also already host a CFB bowl game and probably will host more CFB with the new stadium, not unlike Lucas Oil Stadium.

If you're building an NFL size stadium, you need to maximize it to ensure that you can attract non-NFL events. Tennessee/Nashville's public money is going to go a lot further than New York/Erie County's. 

• Nashville will get one Super Bowl and done. Just look at Dallas/Arlington. The NFL wants their warm weather rotation of California, Houston/New Orleans, Arizona/Las Vegas and Florida with Atlanta occasionally sprinkled in.
• Nashville isn't getting any new concerts that they won't already get,
• Lucas Oil Stadium gets a bunch of basketball Sweet 16s and Final Fours. Lucas Oil is also a "warm" backup if a different city is unable to host on short notice.

-1 Super Bowl (and they'll likely get more as NO's stadium ages) is literally infinitely more than they've gotten before.

-Nashville already gets way more concerts than Buffalo, concerts that stimulate the economy, hence why the public investment in a stadium that will retain and probably attract more concerts will go further.

-Indianapolis never got any of what you just mentioned until they built a high end stadium with the NFL promising Super Bowls.

I'm just telling you reality of why Nashville's deal preferable to Buffalo's. You don't need to argue that the sky is green.

RockChalkSTL wrote:How is the Tennessee Titans deal not worse? 

The state of New York is giving the Buffalo Bills $600 million. Erie County is giving them another $250 million. That's a total of $850 million and roughly 40.5% of the project cost. 

The Titans will be receiving $1.2 billion in public funds for their new $2.1 billion stadium, around 57.1% of the project cost.  

While I agree with you I disagree with you. Nashville can very much afford the new stadium it’s simply one of the fastest growing cities in the country on top of that it’s a city loaded in wealth & on top of that being the states capital on the other side Buffalo has been on the decline for more than 60 years & it’s in the top 5 poorest cities in the country the only way Buffalo keeps that team is if the state of NY pays for nearly the entirety of that new stadium which it has done. Buffalo will just be getting a nice new stadium with a sea of parking with no real economic benefit from it while in Nashville they’ll benefit from the mix used developments that’ll be near the new stadium. It all boils down to Buffalo is poor with no real signs of any growth to continued decline & Nashville is wealthy with signs of sustained moderate to rapid growth.


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I guess I would put any St. Louis success if it would have retained the Rams and or brining another NFL team (be it expansion or move) in the Buffalo Bills column instead of Nashville in that Nashville can in a way afford it (not saying best use of tax dollars) whereas Buffalo is at what price your willing to forgo on other investments?   Buffalo will have impact of subsidies sucking air out of other projects because it is unlikely their tax base significantly anytime soon 
..
St. Louis Rams move in short term is a big plus in that the City/County (especially the city) can and needs to get convention upgrades completed with its reliable foot traffic/hotel stays/sales tax to the point that I wonder if city should not be setting aside some of the settlement funds to that end instead of wasting time bickering with County politicians on every nickel, to basic infrastructure needs downtown plus getting some buildings under development, to competitive employee compensation (not the settlement funds) but avoid bleeding tax revenues away from general fund for stadium over competitive compensation, to say supporting Enterprise Arena/Old Muni Courts development/Clark Ave sports hall of fame, to Lambert or future N-S.  I doubt you will see some of the progress now and certainly can't afford to give up on things to give Billionaires club a new stadium.    

Apparently in Indianapolis, all the counties around Indianapolis instituted new taxes to fund Lucas Oil. Imagine St. Charles and Jefferson actually paying their fair share on anything.

Auggie wrote: ↑

Dec 17, 2024

dweebe wrote: ↑

Dec 17, 2024

Auggie wrote: ↑

Dec 17, 2024

The Titan's stadium will 1) Likely host multiple Super Bowls, 2) Host way more concerts than the Bill's stadium, and 3) It will include a mixed-use district adjacent to the stadium. If we had to build a stadium, I would want the Titan's plan over the Bill's plan all day every day. They also already host a CFB bowl game and probably will host more CFB with the new stadium, not unlike Lucas Oil Stadium.

If you're building an NFL size stadium, you need to maximize it to ensure that you can attract non-NFL events. Tennessee/Nashville's public money is going to go a lot further than New York/Erie County's. 

• Nashville will get one Super Bowl and done. Just look at Dallas/Arlington. The NFL wants their warm weather rotation of California, Houston/New Orleans, Arizona/Las Vegas and Florida with Atlanta occasionally sprinkled in.
• Nashville isn't getting any new concerts that they won't already get,
• Lucas Oil Stadium gets a bunch of basketball Sweet 16s and Final Fours. Lucas Oil is also a "warm" backup if a different city is unable to host on short notice.

-1 Super Bowl (and they'll likely get more as NO's stadium ages) is literally infinitely more than they've gotten before.

-Nashville already gets way more concerts than Buffalo, concerts that stimulate the economy, hence why the public investment in a stadium that will retain and probably attract more concerts  will go further.

-Indianapolis never got any of what you just mentioned until they built a high end stadium with the NFL promising Super Bowls.

I'm just telling you reality of why Nashville's deal preferable to Buffalo's. You don't need to argue that the sky is green.

It isn't green? /jk

Don't forget that New Orleans/the Saints spent half a billion on another round of renovations on the Superdome.
https://bizneworleans.com/caesars-super ... n-updates/

I spent some time in one thread on the Nashville reddit where a bunch of them thought the new Nissan Dome would put them in the tier with LA and Vegas of getting a game every 4-6 years. 

I'm still shocked Atlanta got a Super Bowl again after SB34 when the Rams won and they had a light glaze of ice that "crippled" the city.

I’m hearing that Mayor, Dustin from GSL, Sonnier and Pam Boyd are having a joint press conference , I assume there is a compromise bill between the Sonnier and Boyd bills

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Jan 21, 2025

Sure does look a lot like the Beganovic compromise

I wonder how much of an impact this will have for downtown and north city. 

To be fair, it’s not awful. I hope the execution is properly done

How does the 1:1 private match requirement work? I don't understand how mobility infrastructure projects are getting that much private investment? How does 1:1 match supposed to work for supporting the relocation of businesses downtown? Someone please enlighten me. Thanks.

Very simple. $30m in infrastructure for example: GSL can provide a match with the city for a $20m roadway project where GSL invests $2m and the city $2m from the fund and they use it to apply for the rest at East west gateway via federal funds

City can offer a biz a $3m incentive for a biz to move from New Hampshire and GSL will match it, just like they did for the Frankfurt flight

Thanks, appreciate that. I just found the following relevant info from the press conference as well:

"The Downtown fund will specifically allocate $30 million to mobility infrastructure and $11 million for the acquisition of the Railway Exchange Building. The remaining funds will be used to preserve or create housing, address vacancy, and support the relocation of businesses to downtown. Accessing these funds will require a 1:1 private match from Greater St. Louis, Inc. (GSL), whose investors have publicly expressed their willingness to exceed that with at least a 2:1 match for many projects."

This new bill is significantly better than the original.

So between the Rams money and the private match that would be a $60 Million match for downtown mobility projects. Assuming a 80/20 federal match, that could be up $300 Million in mobility projects for downtown St. Louis. Needless to say, that would be absolutely transformative in itself. Just to put it in perspective the 7th street revitalization project only cost what about $4 millon? So basically Downtown St. Louis infrastructure is about to go from being very dated and unattractive, to probably having some the most modern, attractive streetscapes in the United States over the next few years. Thanks Kroenke!!!! 

Any idea if they plan to implement the whole mobility plan at once or will this be over the course of several years? I'd rather see them apply for one big grant for the entire downtown. Either way, updated infrastructure will surely lead to more investment. I think Olive should be one of the first streets to get a reduction and landscaping. 

goat314 wrote:So between the Rams money and the private match that would be a $60 Million match for downtown mobility projects. Assuming a 80/20 federal match, that could be up $300 Million in mobility projects for downtown St. Louis. Needless to say, that would be absolutely transformative in itself. Just to put it in perspective the 7th street revitalization project only cost what about $4 millon? So basically Downtown St. Louis infrastructure is about to go from being very dated and unattractive, to probably having some the most modern, attractive streetscapes in the United States over the next few years. Thanks Kroenke!!!! 

Any idea if they plan to implement the whole mobility plan at once or will this be over the course of several years? I'd rather see them apply for one big grant for the entire downtown. Either way, updated infrastructure will surely lead to more investment. I think Olive should be one of the first streets to get a reduction and landscaping. 

Where’d you get 80-20… not unless it’s a highway project.

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Jan 21, 2025

goat314 wrote:So between the Rams money and the private match that would be a $60 Million match for downtown mobility projects. Assuming a 80/20 federal match, that could be up $300 Million in mobility projects for downtown St. Louis. Needless to say, that would be absolutely transformative in itself. Just to put it in perspective the 7th street revitalization project only cost what about $4 millon? So basically Downtown St. Louis infrastructure is about to go from being very dated and unattractive, to probably having some the most modern, attractive streetscapes in the United States over the next few years. Thanks Kroenke!!!! 

Any idea if they plan to implement the whole mobility plan at once or will this be over the course of several years? I'd rather see them apply for one big grant for the entire downtown. Either way, updated infrastructure will surely lead to more investment. I think Olive should be one of the first streets to get a reduction and landscaping. 

Where’d you get 80-20… not unless it’s a highway project.

Highways typically get much more than 20%.

80/20 is the most common match for any federal transportation dollars, like those that the city would be eligible for at East West Gateway. Safety projects can be 90/10 sometimes. Issue for the city /GSL is that they need to show immediate progress but any time you apply for fed $ its 3-5 year wait. Not saying they shouldn’t leverage this for some of that but maybe half and half.

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Jan 21, 2025

goat314 wrote:So between the Rams money and the private match that would be a $60 Million match for downtown mobility projects. Assuming a 80/20 federal match, that could be up $300 Million in mobility projects for downtown St. Louis. Needless to say, that would be absolutely transformative in itself. Just to put it in perspective the 7th street revitalization project only cost what about $4 millon? So basically Downtown St. Louis infrastructure is about to go from being very dated and unattractive, to probably having some the most modern, attractive streetscapes in the United States over the next few years. Thanks Kroenke!!!! 

Any idea if they plan to implement the whole mobility plan at once or will this be over the course of several years? I'd rather see them apply for one big grant for the entire downtown. Either way, updated infrastructure will surely lead to more investment. I think Olive should be one of the first streets to get a reduction and landscaping. 

Where’d you get 80-20… not unless it’s a highway project.

I thought 80/20 split was for all road projects. Transit is typically 50/50 though. 

goat314 wrote:

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Jan 21, 2025

goat314 wrote:So between the Rams money and the private match that would be a $60 Million match for downtown mobility projects. Assuming a 80/20 federal match, that could be up $300 Million in mobility projects for downtown St. Louis. Needless to say, that would be absolutely transformative in itself. Just to put it in perspective the 7th street revitalization project only cost what about $4 millon? So basically Downtown St. Louis infrastructure is about to go from being very dated and unattractive, to probably having some the most modern, attractive streetscapes in the United States over the next few years. Thanks Kroenke!!!! 

Any idea if they plan to implement the whole mobility plan at once or will this be over the course of several years? I'd rather see them apply for one big grant for the entire downtown. Either way, updated infrastructure will surely lead to more investment. I think Olive should be one of the first streets to get a reduction and landscaping. 

Where’d you get 80-20… not unless it’s a highway project.

I thought 80/20 split was for all road projects. Transit is typically 50/50 though. 

I was thinking you were saying 80-20 on transit. That’s where I was confused. My bad

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Jan 22, 2025

goat314 wrote:

ldai_phs wrote: ↑

Jan 21, 2025

Where’d you get 80-20… not unless it’s a highway project.

I thought 80/20 split was for all road projects. Transit is typically 50/50 though. 

I was thinking you were saying 80-20 on transit. That’s where I was confused. My bad

I don't know if any of the money will be allocated towards transit. I think it will be most used for street redesigns and beautifcation. Which will go a long way to help downtown perceptions in my opinion. I think the dated infrastructure takes away from the beauty of downtown. I also think some of the money will be used for a retail plan. Maybe DB has more info. 

Rams settlement bill posted

After negotiation that combined aspects of Board Bill 131 (greater STL Inc lead bill) and Board Bill 153 (mayor, boa president lead bill) the language is now out for the combined bill, supported by both the business community, the mayors office and the presidents office

This bill will be debated at the Board Of Aldermen on Friday with opportunities for amendments, I expect downtown funding to be restored after some was re-allocated during the HUDZ committee meeting last week. The bills final passage will be on the boards final day of this session, before election season break on February 7th


https://www.stlouis-mo.gov/government/c ... o9LKY8uY0g