sc4mayor
sc4mayor

PostFeb 23, 2021#4326

^ My apologizes. I don’t read STLToday comments because of the abject stupidity. I thought you were referring to folks here on UrbanSTL.

I would suggest anyone who cares about STL avoid those STLToday comments sections...those people over there have had their minds melted somehow.

(And yes, I know the airport would still be “owned” by the city, they’d just have no control over it or it’s finances any longer...I’m sure Texas still maintains some “ownership” over a lot of their now private infrastructure too...)

Anyway...back to the Rams...

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PostFeb 26, 2021#4327

I may have mentioned it earlier in this thread, but it still holds true - After every milestone since the suite was filed I check out the LA Times and all of their columnists who cover the team (website and social media) - there has been zero coverage, actually not even a mention on any platform, like it didn't exist.

Granted I could have missed something but I find it odd 

Makes you wonder if the team requested a media blackout in LA, or they just see it as inconsequential. I think if the tables were reversed the Post would at least let know its happening.    

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PostFeb 26, 2021#4328

beer city wrote:
Feb 26, 2021
I may have mentioned it earlier in this thread, but it still holds true - After every milestone since the suite was filed I check out the LA Times and all of their columnists who cover the team (website and social media) - there has been zero coverage, actually not even a mention on any platform, like it didn't exist.

Granted I could have missed something but I find it odd 

Makes you wonder if the team requested a media blackout in LA, or they just see it as inconsequential. I think if the tables were reversed the Post would at least let know its happening.    
I think most places outside of STL don’t care, including LA. Let’s say the Rams lose and actually do pay a billion dollars. How does it matter to LA? They still have the team and it changes nothing there. If it would actual change something in LA it might be different.

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PostFeb 26, 2021#4329

^How much money can Kroenke and his organization afford to hemorrhage? Particularly if he ends up on the hook for all the leagues loses and legal fees this could add up quickly. Could that impact the team's solvency? He has a lot of money and it's a valuable franchise, but his pockets aren't infinite. It still seems pretty danged unlikely, but I could see a world where he's forced to sell. Funny things happen when ownership changes, and even in LA a bankruptcy that big probably wouldn't go unnoticed. The home team will need to run up a lot more wins still for that to happen . . . but you've got to dream.

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PostFeb 26, 2021#4330

Arsenal is for sale.

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PostFeb 26, 2021#4331

prophett wrote:
Feb 26, 2021
Arsenal is for sale.
Smart to sell when they're sitting 11th in the Premier League & barely made it through to the round of 16 in the Europa League. Haven't been top 6 for 5 years.  

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PostFeb 26, 2021#4332

Well good for Arsenal fans, there is no love lost between them and Kreonke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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PostMar 04, 2021#4333

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:
Feb 26, 2021
Well good for Arsenal fans, there is no love lost between them and Kreonke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
As a fan of another London-based team, I'd rather he keep them.

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PostMar 11, 2021#4334

Big update to the lawsuit: 
Trial is being pushed back to January 2022 from October 2021. Reason: Covid-19 is causing delays. 
KMOX: St. Louis vs NFL, Rams lawsuit postponed until next year

This could be a net benefit to the STL Plaintiffs. 

Prior to the announcement of the court date, the biggest news surrounding this case has been that the STL Plaintiffs have been complaining to the courts that the NFL Defendants have been dragging their heels when it comes to discovery. 
NBC Sports: St. Louis lawyers accuse NFL, Rams of delay tactics in relocation lawsuit
For example, the plaintiffs have yet to question former NFL executive Eric Grubman. A motion to compel Grubman’s testimony and to sanction the NFL and the Rams for alleged delay tactics was presented to the court on Thursday.
“Since the case was filed, it has taken repeated motions and the Court’s Orders to compel Defendants to answer simple interrogatories and produce responsive documents,” the plaintiffs’ paperwork explains, via Fredrickson. “Even after the Court’s Orders, Defendants have repeatedly asserted frivolous challenges or simply refused to respond. Mr. Grubman’s unilateral refusal to appear for his deposition without explanation is only the latest in Defendants’ multi-year string of discovery abuses.”
Via the article in the Post-Dispatch, Rams owner Stan Kroenke and Chargers owner Dean Spanos have canceled their own depositions; one of the lawyers representing the NFL said that both had to reschedule due to COVID-19. (It’s unclear whether it was contended that either or both men contracted COVID-19.)
Thursday’s hearing also included more efforts by the NFL and the Rams to focus on the terms of the original lease that brought the Rams to St. Louis in 1995. That lease apparently isn’t part of the current litigation, which focuses on whether the league and the Rams adhered to the relocation guidelines, and whether St. Louis wasted time and money on an effort to keep the Rams in town.
Bottom line? The litigation isn’t going away. But it doesn’t seem to be on track for a trial date or any other resolution any time soon.
Well, NBC Sports, we definitely have that date firmed up now, just the rest of discovery to finish up. 

Last night, I heard a great interview on KMOX that I highly recommend to anyone interested in this case: 
KMOX: New decision in $1 billion St. Louis vs NFL lawsuit will benefit St. Louis, legal analyst says
The full interview can be found in this article (note: 39 minutes long). 

This interview was with Brad Young, an attorney and partner with Harris Dowell Fisher & Young, L.C. 
His quick thoughts: 

1. Just about everything has gone in favor of the STL Plaintiffs so far. This includes the case going to trial and not into arbitration; that the case is being held in the City of Saint Louis' 22nd Judicial District; that the rest of the NFL owners have been enjoined into the suit; and that the US Supreme Court has denied certiorari to hear the case. 

2. This time delay allows the STL Plaintiffs to apply further pressure upon the League to produce discovery. This includes documents related to the case as well as opportunities for depositions. Counselor Young brought up that cell phone records are sought from all the League's owners and that they are reticent to provide this information. Among those dragging their feet: Bob Kraft (Remember his full-hands massage problem in Florida? Yeah, you bet he wants his cell phone data to remain fully confidential). So, with these extra 3 months, the STL Plaintiffs can continue to lobby the courts to get the NFL Defendants to produce documents and sit for depositions. The less production, the less happy the courts will be with the NFL Defendants' conduct. 

3. The Deposition of Stank Kroenke took place in January via Zoom call. Young said it lasted two full 8-hour days of non-stop questioning. He also told KMOX that the longest deposition he had ever been a part of professionally lasted only one day. Apparently, the STL Plaintiffs' attorneys asked Kroenke everything they could ever think of that relates to this case. 

4. Young brought up how Kroenke repeatedly stated, publicly, that he/the Rams/the NFL would do everything within their powers to keep the team in STL prior to their relocation. He said this includes statements to this effect made after Kroenke had already purchased the land in Inglewood where their new stadium now sits. Young told KMOX that this alone can likely prove fraud. 

5. Young also brought up an interesting idea I hadn't heard before... If there are or have been other allegations of fraud against Kroenke/the Rams/Kroenke Sports Enterprises and/or any of his professional sports franchises (i.e. Arsenal, the Nuggets, the Avalanche, etc.), then this can further the STL Plaintiffs' arguments that the Defendants commit fraud, that there could be a demonstrable pattern of behavior here. I'm not sure if they have anything furthering this, but it's a hell of a thing to consider going forward. Keep your eyes open, I suppose... 

6. This delay also means 3 more months of costs to the NFL Defendants, many of whom are already forking out eight figures in attorneys' fees. They want this thing to go away. Does this mean an increased likelihood of settlement? Maybe, but the STL Plaintiffs' attorneys have already stated that they want their day in court more than they want a settlement. And, their fees are not hourly but upon contingency. The STL Plaintiffs have considerable leverage. 

7. If this goes to a full trial and judgment, then all the depositions and related discovery evidence shall become public record. Kraft will have kittens. 

8. Fair to say Kroenke is hated by the other owners. 

9. The NFL's biggest fears are centered upon brand damage. They have the money and can dump a billion or more if need be, but the costs to their image, to their relationships to their consumers, could really be banged up. 

10. Punitive damages are very much in play. Sky's the limit, y'all. 

Counselor Young sounded very upbeat to the STL Plaintiffs' chances here. Sparks are gonna fly. 

Edit: One final thing to keep in mind... The NFL itself is a quasi-monopoly. The 1957 US Supreme Court case of Radovich v National Football League determined that the League is subject to US antitrust laws. The League's Relocation Rules were consciously and specifically written to comply with Federal antitrust concerns. Should the League continue to argue that their relocation rules are worthless, as they have been since the week before the relocation vote, then they could be signing their own death warrants. 

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PostMar 12, 2021#4335

Good Stuff!

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PostMar 12, 2021#4336

Love it!!! StanK going down in flames! Big time cost overruns and delays on his stadium, costing him billions. Now this! Let’s hope we hurt him terribly, financially speaking!

sc4mayor
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PostMar 12, 2021#4337

^ I mean, yeah that’d be great, but that Walton money is gonna keep him going just fine.

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PostMar 12, 2021#4338

A couple questions if anyone knows (or wants to speculate) that I don't see a lot of coverage about, this may have been covered previously in the thread, apologies if so. 
I'm curious about the impact this would have on local budgets if the city prevails. Where would the money (minus lawyers' fees) go: into the general fund, to the convention center, somewhere else? And how would this affect the budget, obviously there's a wide range of what the final number might be from $0 to $1 billion+, but would the amounts being commonly talked about be enough qualify as a significant windfall that would plug a deficit or enable any special projects that wouldn't have been funded otherwise?

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PostMar 13, 2021#4339

^^Agree, but no matter how rich you are, if you lose billions it’s going to hurt. Unless you own Amazon &/or Microsoft.

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PostMar 13, 2021#4340

sc4mayor wrote:
Mar 12, 2021
^ I mean, yeah that’d be great, but that Walton money is gonna keep him going just fine.
There's a whole passel of Walton heirs to whom he'll have to answer if he looses too much. Besides, the Wally money is all his wife's in the end. They might prop up Ann Walton Kroenke. But I expect he only gets help so long as she chooses to lend a hand and if he looses too much of her money . . .

sc4mayor
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PostMar 13, 2021#4341

^ He’s not gonna lose that much though. In the unlikely event St. Louis could clear a billion dollar or more settlement it’ll be paid by the League and all the other teams (including Kroenke). Kroenke didn’t get the entire expansion fee...it was split up among each team. Each team and the NFL would be responsible for part of the payout.

Stan’s stadium issues aside...he’s not gonna be writing any billion dollar checks to St. Louis.

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PostMar 13, 2021#4342

sc4mayor wrote:
Mar 13, 2021
^ He’s not gonna lose that much though.  In the unlikely event St. Louis could clear a billion dollar or more settlement it’ll be paid by the League and all the other teams (including Kroenke).  Kroenke didn’t get the entire expansion fee...it was split up among each team.  Each team and the NFL would be responsible for part of the payout.

Stan’s stadium issues aside...he’s not gonna be writing any billion dollar checks to St. Louis.
But I thought one of the agreements for the move to LA was that the Rams/Kroenke would cover the league's costs if any lawsuits were lost?

sc4mayor
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PostMar 13, 2021#4343

dweebe wrote:
Mar 13, 2021
sc4mayor wrote:
Mar 13, 2021
^ He’s not gonna lose that much though.  In the unlikely event St. Louis could clear a billion dollar or more settlement it’ll be paid by the League and all the other teams (including Kroenke).  Kroenke didn’t get the entire expansion fee...it was split up among each team.  Each team and the NFL would be responsible for part of the payout.

Stan’s stadium issues aside...he’s not gonna be writing any billion dollar checks to St. Louis.
But I thought one of the agreements for the move to LA was that the Rams/Kroenke would cover the league's costs if any lawsuits were lost?
I'm not sure...excellent point though.  If that's true then what I said is wrong.

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PostMar 13, 2021#4344

I think Kroenke is responsible for legal fees arising from lawsuits related to relocation, not sure about damages.  Just speculating, maybe someone with knowledge of this lawsuit can weigh in.

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PostMar 14, 2021#4345

sc4mayor wrote:
Mar 13, 2021
dweebe wrote:
Mar 13, 2021
sc4mayor wrote:
Mar 13, 2021
^ He’s not gonna lose that much though.  In the unlikely event St. Louis could clear a billion dollar or more settlement it’ll be paid by the League and all the other teams (including Kroenke).  Kroenke didn’t get the entire expansion fee...it was split up among each team.  Each team and the NFL would be responsible for part of the payout.

Stan’s stadium issues aside...he’s not gonna be writing any billion dollar checks to St. Louis.
But I thought one of the agreements for the move to LA was that the Rams/Kroenke would cover the league's costs if any lawsuits were lost?
I'm not sure...excellent point though.  If that's true then what I said is wrong.
Kroenke agreed to pay all legal fees related to the move. That’s one reason he got the votes to move.

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PostMar 14, 2021#4346

^Does that include any settlement if the league loses a suit?

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PostMar 14, 2021#4347

He probably has the mother of all umbrella insurance policies to cover liability. Still.... would hurt.

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PostJun 12, 2021#4348

Saw this on PD website:

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... -top-story

"It had long been rumored that Kroenke had to sign a contract protecting the league and all of its teams from a lawsuit stemming from the Rams’ departure. But the documents filed Wednesday publicly spell out for the first time just such an indemnification agreement. In a copy of the league’s relocation policy sent in 2014 to Chargers owner Dean Spanos, the document says that if NFL or team profits are threatened, the relocating club “will be required to indemnify other members of the League for adverse effects that could result from the proposed relocation.”

^^ Looks like Kroenke would be on the hook for any expense related to relocation. Oh goody!

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PostJun 13, 2021#4349

^Better and better! Let's put some of that Wal-Mart money to good use. Finally!

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PostJun 14, 2021#4350

^^Somewhere out there maybe a year ago, I read an article (something reputable) that mentioned how the Dolphins' legal fees related to this case had already accumulated into the low eight figures... StanK's getting beat up already. Gotta love it. 

Meanwhile, the premise of the NFL's motion for summary judgment really has me thinking they're terrified. Their argument is that their own relocation guidelines are non-binding, arbitrary, and can be amended at ready notice so long as such amendments are in the business interests of the League and its franchise owners. However, the reason the League has relocation guidelines in the first place is to abide by US laws regarding monopolies. Now, if they win on this argument (which is highly doubtful), wouldn't that put their antitrust status in real jeopardy? Could their supposed big relocation lawsuit cure actually poison themselves? I'm not saying that their argument has credible merit, but the fact that they're even going to put this big a risk on themselves to try to win this lawsuit shows that they're really, really scared. 
(*IANAL. Would appreciate any learned counsel to comment on this. Thanks) 

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