It's always fun to watch career suicide happen before your eyes.
But Olgilvie isn't burning bridges. Maybe's she's right about bribes. No way for me to know. But those accusations can't be taken lightly. How can you be so confident about corruption like that just to have it dismissed so easily. Doesn't exactly give her a lot of credibility.I'm also glad we have Alderpeople like her and Olgilvie coming up. It's a huge breath of fresh air.
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Oh bribes definitely happen. I know for a fact that Cordish 'greased some wheels' with Phase I. Could I say exactly when, where, and how much it went down for? Nope. But I've overheard first hand statements that solidify my belief that they've paid off certain politicians to keep BPV's interests safe.
pat wrote:But Olgilvie isn't burning bridges. Maybe's she's right about bribes. No way for me to know. But those accusations can't be taken lightly. How can you be so confident about corruption like that just to have it dismissed so easily. Doesn't exactly give her a lot of credibility.I'm also glad we have Alderpeople like her and Olgilvie coming up. It's a huge breath of fresh air.
Running to Twitter to report it is also a massive miscalculation.
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This is a pretty interesting letter from Pittsburgh's Riverfront group. However, the experience there really has little in common with our riverfront... it would be more like if we had Busch and an NFL stadium on the east bank of the river across from downtown. Unfortunately, the required footprint of an NFL stadium means there really will be very little mixed-use development potential in that constrained site. Theoretically it might spur Lumiere to develop and perhaps something across the highway at the "Bottle District" site, but that's dubious. Aside from perhaps a re-use of the power plant (which I'm pretty sure isn't accounted for in the $1b price tag, I doubt we'd see much if any development.courtland wrote:How's this for an endorsement from a peer city...
http://bit.ly/1SQ3PSi
Come on STL, let's invest in our front yard!
Having said that, I would have been very open to a presentation of a North Shore or Banks-like development master plan, but I don't think there is one presented b/c it's not really possible.
At the end of the day, it just seems to me Stan doesn't want to be in St. Louis.
I don't trust the NFL owners, and I could be wrong, but I think Stan will get the votes he needs to relocate.
At this juncture, why deal with him? Why put the city, state and taxpayers on the hook for an unappreciative owner and league.
These guys are like a fraternity. They fight and disagree, but at the end of the day they back one another for the good of the fraternity.
No proposal, as I see it, would EVER be good enough for Stan (or the NFL), which is why he high-balled St. Louis with $700-million+ redo of the existing stadium.
He knew it was outrageous and St. Louis would never go for it. His plans were to go to Loss (not a typo) Angeles all along.
A $300-400-million renovation could have easily brought the EJD into the Top 10%......5%. EASILY.
Stan is shrewd. His former business partners have conveyed this through lawsuits, PR and the like against him.
Also, NONE of his teams win anything/championships. The Colorado Avalanche are cellar dwellers. They are currently 7th in the NHL Western Conference Central Division. The Denver Nuggets are currently 13th in the NBA's Western Conference standings. We all know the St. Louis Rams haven't done sh*t since days of The Greatest Show on Turf. And despite the (London) Arsenal's current second place standing, in London he's been called "cheap".
Nothing is going to change in Los Angeles because all Stan wants to do is milk their fans to amass millions more on top of his billions.
Stan doesn't seem to be isn't interested in winning. He's seems to be interested in making money by pilfering from fans to line his pockets while giving minimal investment into his teams. Fans are being duped by thinking year-after-year, "This will be the year.", but it never is.
It's like the circus. Season-after-season the circus comes to town take the money, but at least you were entertained.
I'm still torn because I want St. Louis to be an NFL City. I'm tired of St. Louis being ***** over by the NFL and its owners.
Although St. Louis is making it hard for Kroenke and the league to legitimately ***** St. Louis, St. Louis appears to be only playing game to stick it to Kroenke. I hate begging motherf*ck*** to do anything for me. St. Louis needs this approach too.
If the Rams leave, St. Louis needs to pursue a NBA and pro soccer franchises.
The land on the north riverfront could then become home to some of the best riverfront housing/mixed-used development St. Louis' riverfront has ever seen.
I don't trust the NFL owners, and I could be wrong, but I think Stan will get the votes he needs to relocate.
At this juncture, why deal with him? Why put the city, state and taxpayers on the hook for an unappreciative owner and league.
These guys are like a fraternity. They fight and disagree, but at the end of the day they back one another for the good of the fraternity.
No proposal, as I see it, would EVER be good enough for Stan (or the NFL), which is why he high-balled St. Louis with $700-million+ redo of the existing stadium.
He knew it was outrageous and St. Louis would never go for it. His plans were to go to Loss (not a typo) Angeles all along.
A $300-400-million renovation could have easily brought the EJD into the Top 10%......5%. EASILY.
Stan is shrewd. His former business partners have conveyed this through lawsuits, PR and the like against him.
Also, NONE of his teams win anything/championships. The Colorado Avalanche are cellar dwellers. They are currently 7th in the NHL Western Conference Central Division. The Denver Nuggets are currently 13th in the NBA's Western Conference standings. We all know the St. Louis Rams haven't done sh*t since days of The Greatest Show on Turf. And despite the (London) Arsenal's current second place standing, in London he's been called "cheap".
Nothing is going to change in Los Angeles because all Stan wants to do is milk their fans to amass millions more on top of his billions.
Stan doesn't seem to be isn't interested in winning. He's seems to be interested in making money by pilfering from fans to line his pockets while giving minimal investment into his teams. Fans are being duped by thinking year-after-year, "This will be the year.", but it never is.
It's like the circus. Season-after-season the circus comes to town take the money, but at least you were entertained.
I'm still torn because I want St. Louis to be an NFL City. I'm tired of St. Louis being ***** over by the NFL and its owners.
Although St. Louis is making it hard for Kroenke and the league to legitimately ***** St. Louis, St. Louis appears to be only playing game to stick it to Kroenke. I hate begging motherf*ck*** to do anything for me. St. Louis needs this approach too.
If the Rams leave, St. Louis needs to pursue a NBA and pro soccer franchises.
The land on the north riverfront could then become home to some of the best riverfront housing/mixed-used development St. Louis' riverfront has ever seen.
You had me until the last two sentencesarch city wrote:At the end of the day, it just seems to me Stan doesn't want to be in St. Louis.
I don't trust the NFL owners, and I could be wrong, but I think Stan will get the votes he needs to relocate.
At this juncture, why deal with him? Why put the city, state and taxpayers on the hook for an unappreciative owner and league.
These guys are like a fraternity.
No deal would EVER be good enough for Stan, which is why he high-balled St. Louis with $700-million+ redo of the existing stadium.
He knew it was outrageous and St. Louis would never go for it. His plans were to go to Loss (not a typo) Angeles all along.
A $300-400-million renovation could have easily brought the EJD into the Top 10%......5%. EASILY.
Stan is shrewd. His former business partners have conveyed this through lawsuits and the like.
Also, NONE of teams win anything. The Colorado Avalanche are cellar dwellers. They are currently 7th in the Western Conference Central Division. The Denver Nuggets are currently 13th in the NBA's Western Conference standings. We all know the St. Louis Rams haven't done sh*t since days of The Greatest Show on Turf. And despite the (London) Arsenal current second place standing, in London he's been called "cheap".
Nothing is going to change in Los Angeles because he's going to milk their fans to amass millions on top of his billions too.
Stan doesn't seem to be isn't interested in winning. He's seems to be interested in making money by pilfering from fans to line his pockets while giving minimal investment into his teams. Fans are being duped by thinking year-after-year, "This will be the year.", but it never is.
It's like the circus, season-after-season the circus comes to town take the money, but at least you were entertained.
I'm still torn because I want St. Louis to be an NFL City. I'm tired of St. Louis being f***ed over by the NFL and its owners.
Although St. Louis appears to be only playing game to stick it to Kroenke, I hate begging ***** to do anything for me.
If the Rams leave, St. Louis needs to pursue a NBA and pro soccer franchises.
The land on the north riverfront could then become home to some of the best riverfront housing/mixed-used development St. Louis' riverfront has ever seen.
1) don't embarrass ourselves trying to get the NBA. The Blues are just now digging themselves out of the hole caused by the Laurie's attempt to get a NBA team.
Kansas City has an arena sitting empty and they can't even get one. If the NBA is going anywhere it's back to Seattle.
2) the north riverfront will look the same in 30 years
It's the two minute warning and there are no timeouts left. Quarterback Dave Peacock took over at the start of the 4th quarter when St. Louis was losing 35-0 and he's done a great job. But the Los Angeles Kroenkes are winning 38-28 and they've got the ball. We put up a good effort and that's all we have to hang our hat on.
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couldn't disagree more. the only way that can happen is if STL redevelopment in Greater Downtown comes to a complete standstill and GRG does nothing with respect to North Riverfront Trail enhancements. will it suddenly be a robust, mixed-use area w/o massive investment? No. But give it time and attention and it will be something to be proud of.dweebe wrote:[
2) the north riverfront will look the same in 30 years
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Dweebe your tone has really changed over the past year or so. It doesn't matter what the topic you're all doom and gloom. Cheer up mang.dweebe wrote:You had me until the last two sentencesarch city wrote:At the end of the day, it just seems to me Stan doesn't want to be in St. Louis.
I don't trust the NFL owners, and I could be wrong, but I think Stan will get the votes he needs to relocate.
At this juncture, why deal with him? Why put the city, state and taxpayers on the hook for an unappreciative owner and league.
These guys are like a fraternity.
No deal would EVER be good enough for Stan, which is why he high-balled St. Louis with $700-million+ redo of the existing stadium.
He knew it was outrageous and St. Louis would never go for it. His plans were to go to Loss (not a typo) Angeles all along.
A $300-400-million renovation could have easily brought the EJD into the Top 10%......5%. EASILY.
Stan is shrewd. His former business partners have conveyed this through lawsuits and the like.
Also, NONE of teams win anything. The Colorado Avalanche are cellar dwellers. They are currently 7th in the Western Conference Central Division. The Denver Nuggets are currently 13th in the NBA's Western Conference standings. We all know the St. Louis Rams haven't done sh*t since days of The Greatest Show on Turf. And despite the (London) Arsenal current second place standing, in London he's been called "cheap".
Nothing is going to change in Los Angeles because he's going to milk their fans to amass millions on top of his billions too.
Stan doesn't seem to be isn't interested in winning. He's seems to be interested in making money by pilfering from fans to line his pockets while giving minimal investment into his teams. Fans are being duped by thinking year-after-year, "This will be the year.", but it never is.
It's like the circus, season-after-season the circus comes to town take the money, but at least you were entertained.
I'm still torn because I want St. Louis to be an NFL City. I'm tired of St. Louis being f***ed over by the NFL and its owners.
Although St. Louis appears to be only playing game to stick it to Kroenke, I hate begging ***** to do anything for me.
If the Rams leave, St. Louis needs to pursue a NBA and pro soccer franchises.
The land on the north riverfront could then become home to some of the best riverfront housing/mixed-used development St. Louis' riverfront has ever seen.
1) don't embarrass ourselves trying to get the NBA. The Blues are just now digging themselves out of the hole caused by the Laurie's attempt to get a NBA team.
Kansas City has an arena sitting empty and they can't even get one. If the NBA is going anywhere it's back to Seattle.
2) the north riverfront will look the same in 30 years
It's the two minute warning and there are no timeouts left. Quarterback Dave Peacock took over at the start of the 4th quarter when St. Louis was losing 35-0 and he's done a great job. But the Los Angeles Kroenkes are winning 38-28 and they've got the ball. We put up a good effort and that's all we have to hang our hat on.
^ I disagree too.dweebe wrote:You had me until the last two sentences
1) don't embarrass ourselves trying to get the NBA. The Blues are just now digging themselves out of the hole caused by the Laurie's attempt to get a NBA team.
Kansas City has an arena sitting empty and they can't even get one. If the NBA is going anywhere it's back to Seattle.
2) the north riverfront will look the same in 30 years
It's the two minute warning and there are no timeouts left. Quarterback Dave Peacock took over at the start of the 4th quarter when St. Louis was losing 35-0 and he's done a great job. But the Los Angeles Kroenkes are winning 38-28 and they've got the ball. We put up a good effort and that's all we have to hang our hat on.
1. St. Louis can support a NBA easily. This is why Bill Laurie almost succeeded in bringing the Vancouver Grizzlies to St. Louis. He believed they would do well sharing the then SAVVIS Center with the St. Louis Blues, which he owned at the time. He was voted down by the NBA only because of the way he Bogarted and manipulated the relocation process. The (NBA) fraternity didn't like it. He's of course, married to another Wal-Mart heiress. But the faternity didn't care.
2. In regards to the North Riverfront, if a stadium doesn't go there, it's already been studied for mixed-use as an option. If St. Louis doesn't demonstrate nepotism by giving the project to someone like Paul McKee or an entity like Cordish or some local hack with a poor development track record, it could be done.
Have faith. Just a little. A wee bit.
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For a bit of comic relief, check out the very first page of this thread.
Seeing the sausage being made has turned me in to a vegetarian.moorlander wrote:Dweebe your tone has really changed over the past year or so. It doesn't matter what the topic you're all doom and gloom. Cheer up mang.
Seriously though, I question the wisdom of spending so much money on a horrible owner and a league that could very well in trouble.
Lets fix up the Scottrade Center and get an MLS team in to a nice soccer-only stadium that fits our budget.
225 pages in 13 months?!?! (Hangs head in shame.)roger wyoming II wrote:For a bit of comic relief, check out the very first page of this thread.
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^ We need a gif of dweebe hanging his head in shame!
If Stan moves the Rams, Missouri's tax auditor ought to turn Stan's books upside down.
His THF Realty owns so much property in metro St. Louis (Chesterfield Commons, The Plaza in Clayton, etc.) so there's a chance he's done some sheisty cooking of his books.
I say let him have it. Unleash the wrath.
![]()
Chesterfield Commons
![]()
The Plaza in Clayton
His THF Realty owns so much property in metro St. Louis (Chesterfield Commons, The Plaza in Clayton, etc.) so there's a chance he's done some sheisty cooking of his books.
I say let him have it. Unleash the wrath.
Chesterfield Commons
The Plaza in Clayton
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How much do you think we are spending? As an existing NFL market, we are entitled to $450M in outside money from the current owner & NFL. Popularity generates $160M in PSL sales. And due to its popularity, nearly all public money is returned in tax revenue. I don't know what the rules are for an MLS stadium, but a top flight MLS stadium will likely cost the public more.dweebe wrote:Seeing the sausage being made has turned me in to a vegetarian.moorlander wrote:Dweebe your tone has really changed over the past year or so. It doesn't matter what the topic you're all doom and gloom. Cheer up mang.
Seriously though, I question the wisdom of spending so much money on a horrible owner and a league that could very well in trouble.
Lets fix up the Scottrade Center and get an MLS team in to a nice soccer-only stadium that fits our budget.
New Interview with Disney CEO Working on Chargers Carson Stadium Plan Raising Questions
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/N ... 41181.html
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/N ... 41181.html
Speaking on the condition of anonymity, two different attorneys familiar with the situation who have dealt with the NFL in the past told NBC 7 SportsWrap that Richardson’s actions could help lay the groundwork for a collusion lawsuit by either the City/County of San Diego or, more likely, Stan Kroenke and the Rams.
There are several reasons for this, according to the attorneys:
Richardson sought cooperation from an influential individual (Iger) to a specific project in the best interest of two owners (Dean Spanos and Mark Davis) and did so in a confidential manner.
This individual’s involvement is a detriment to another owner (Kroenke).
Richardson’s status as the head of the Committee on Los Angeles Opportunities, which has influence on the decision process.
There are financial ramifications for Richardson’s actions (in the billions of dollars).
Taken all together, the attorneys said, that would satisfy the conditions necessary to bring a collusion lawsuit.
Anything over $150 million would get us an absolute top tier MLS stadium. If there is ANY private partnership involved whatsoever, then it's instantly a better deal than the football stadium.gary kreie wrote:How much do you think we are spending? As an existing NFL market, we are entitled to $450M in outside money from the current owner & NFL. Popularity generates $160M in PSL sales. And due to its popularity, nearly all public money is returned in tax revenue. I don't know what the rules are for an MLS stadium, but a top flight MLS stadium will likely cost the public more.dweebe wrote:Seeing the sausage being made has turned me in to a vegetarian.moorlander wrote:Dweebe your tone has really changed over the past year or so. It doesn't matter what the topic you're all doom and gloom. Cheer up mang.
Seriously though, I question the wisdom of spending so much money on a horrible owner and a league that could very well in trouble.
Lets fix up the Scottrade Center and get an MLS team in to a nice soccer-only stadium that fits our budget.
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But we'll actually be able to use the amusement tax as we see fit there. MLS also plays twice as many games. Not to mention the fact that you'd save a substantial amount of the built environment.gary kreie wrote:Well not if you look at game day tax revenue, which would be lower from smaller crowds and cheaper tickets.
I see no way that building a soccer stadium wouldn't be a better endeavor.
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MLS team would bring in about $900,000 a year in amusement taxes.
About $3.2-3.6m in all taxes total.
About $3.2-3.6m in all taxes total.
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^ db, I remember early on in this thread you said that it'd be too expensive to relocate that Ameren electrical substation for the stadium, which proved to be right.... but how much do you think it would take?