A great location to me would be the Bottle District site just north of the dome. There is a large amount of land available and it's walking distance from the Convention Center. Conventions are always on the lookout for event spaces and fun "outings" and this is an area that TopGolf plays very well in.
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Wow, there's a lot of animosity towards this...
Counterpoint: This is farking awesome! Top Golf is one hell of a business, able to generate strong revenues from clients who usually have good money to spend, including and especially corporate accounts. While I'm not a good golfer, I do like the game, and you don't need to be a scratch golfer to enjoy Top Golf. I've been out to Chesterfield's Top Golf before and had a damn good time. It's not just golf, either; they have solid food and drink sales as well. People travel for this, and now this site can give us an option that doesn't mean we have to drive all the way out to the Chesterfield Valley. This will definitely be a big draw for convention attendees; I have no doubt that this place will be bumping with people from the start and keep people coming in the door. Hell, if we get a Top Golf in the City, we'll probably end up getting new conventions we couldn't land otherwise, just by having another fun, nationally recognized entertainment option within a short Uber ride from the Downtown hotels. We already have multiple game-related bars opening up nearby: the Grove has the "recess" space recently announced, the Foundry will have a game-related bar, and let's not forget the Pin-Up Bowl & the Flamingo. Of all of these, I bet Top Golf will have the most people attending. Plus, it's a considerably large investment into an ugly pocket stuck between the railroad tracks and the Compton viaduct. It will make the Steelcote District much more attractive and viable. The site's current use is for a baseball field where I've never seen anyone play baseball, and a pallet shop that can easily relocate while selling their property for a considerable premium. The only people you usually see hanging around at the corner of Compton and Choteau today are people heading in and out of the parole offices just east of Compton; it can definitely be improved. Sure, I'm curious about parking, but I don't think they're gonna lay asphalt everywhere for a giant lot. We just have to have enough to make it attractive to people in Mid County who would choose between Top Golf in the City or Top Golf in Chesterfield.
Tens of millions of dollars in new real estate investment, into a corner that'll remain underdeveloped otherwise, is a great thing for the City.
Counterpoint: This is farking awesome! Top Golf is one hell of a business, able to generate strong revenues from clients who usually have good money to spend, including and especially corporate accounts. While I'm not a good golfer, I do like the game, and you don't need to be a scratch golfer to enjoy Top Golf. I've been out to Chesterfield's Top Golf before and had a damn good time. It's not just golf, either; they have solid food and drink sales as well. People travel for this, and now this site can give us an option that doesn't mean we have to drive all the way out to the Chesterfield Valley. This will definitely be a big draw for convention attendees; I have no doubt that this place will be bumping with people from the start and keep people coming in the door. Hell, if we get a Top Golf in the City, we'll probably end up getting new conventions we couldn't land otherwise, just by having another fun, nationally recognized entertainment option within a short Uber ride from the Downtown hotels. We already have multiple game-related bars opening up nearby: the Grove has the "recess" space recently announced, the Foundry will have a game-related bar, and let's not forget the Pin-Up Bowl & the Flamingo. Of all of these, I bet Top Golf will have the most people attending. Plus, it's a considerably large investment into an ugly pocket stuck between the railroad tracks and the Compton viaduct. It will make the Steelcote District much more attractive and viable. The site's current use is for a baseball field where I've never seen anyone play baseball, and a pallet shop that can easily relocate while selling their property for a considerable premium. The only people you usually see hanging around at the corner of Compton and Choteau today are people heading in and out of the parole offices just east of Compton; it can definitely be improved. Sure, I'm curious about parking, but I don't think they're gonna lay asphalt everywhere for a giant lot. We just have to have enough to make it attractive to people in Mid County who would choose between Top Golf in the City or Top Golf in Chesterfield.
Tens of millions of dollars in new real estate investment, into a corner that'll remain underdeveloped otherwise, is a great thing for the City.
^ Lots of good discussion here and concerns about the site and the use for this part of the city are absolutely valid. But I think I'm pretty much in your camp on this one GC. I've also been to the Chesterfield one several times (along with both locations in Denver and the one in KC) and had a blast at all of them. This will be a big draw, not only for conventions but the college crowd too. My company is HQed in Chesterfield and they routinely do events at Topgolf. I do want to see a site plan before I make my final judgment though. Between the existing empty land (SLU ball fields) and the pallet company there could be enough room to sandwich the range in and maybe leave some room for some out buildings or other development along Chouteau. Time will tell, but this is definitely an exciting development for the city. Plus if they can place it where they have the downtown skyline framed in the backdrop that would be killer.
I live near the one in Tampa. It will almost certainly be a huge draw. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if a Dave and Busters or other ancillary development pops up nearby.
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I mostly agree I think its great that TopGolf is looking at the city. My fist thought was rooftop, but the land area required (~400ft x 1000 ft for the course) make that a hard thing to find, Maybe on top of the America Center... haha.
Union Station springs to mind as well. I would see it as complementary to the changes be made to the shed. Looking at the Stadium site plan it seems like a Top Golf could go south of Clark where they are showing surface lots. I don't think a case could be made for structured parking if you are talking TopGolf in isolation out on Chouteau but as part of the remade U.S. Complex it could start to make sense and thus be a better land use. Plus the skyline views are phenomenal from there.
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Union Station springs to mind as well. I would see it as complementary to the changes be made to the shed. Looking at the Stadium site plan it seems like a Top Golf could go south of Clark where they are showing surface lots. I don't think a case could be made for structured parking if you are talking TopGolf in isolation out on Chouteau but as part of the remade U.S. Complex it could start to make sense and thus be a better land use. Plus the skyline views are phenomenal from there.
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While getting it closer to downtown would be fantastic, I would be against it being on those south proposed lots. I am still struggling to enjoy the ferris wheel at times especially at night as I believe it blocks the view to the arch too much and as somebody who moved into STL 2 years ago seeing that arch was one of the greatest sights upon arriving with a Uhaul. Eventually, I will be okay with the ferris wheel because well it's cool, refreshing and really helping to make union station a destination. I think it would be harder to get over metal pillars with that netting. It wouldn't be as graceful or as beautiful as the ferris wheel. IMO.STLEnginerd wrote: ↑Nov 25, 2019Union Station springs to mind as well. I would see it as complementary to the changes be made to the shed. Looking at the Stadium site plan it seems like a Top Golf could go south of Clark where they are showing surface lots. I don't think a case could be made for structured parking if you are talking TopGolf in isolation out on Chouteau but as part of the remade U.S. Complex it could start to make sense and thus be a better land use. Plus the skyline views are phenomenal from there.
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I know the thing is ugly, but from a perception standpoint, a Top Golf is a big statement building. It's a billboard about how happening and fun the city is to every car travelling down 64.
Sure it's poor land use, but considering the current state of affairs at that intersection I will lose little sleep. Yes the Steelcote complex is being built next door, but I would be shocked to see the area built out by 2030. If anything this adds a fantastic amenity that will increase the neighborhood's restaurant capacity and continue to grow.
SLU comes out as a big winner here as well. Proximity to Top Golf is a great recruiting point. Wouldn't be surprised if this land was specifically marketed to Top Golf for this reason.
Sure it's poor land use, but considering the current state of affairs at that intersection I will lose little sleep. Yes the Steelcote complex is being built next door, but I would be shocked to see the area built out by 2030. If anything this adds a fantastic amenity that will increase the neighborhood's restaurant capacity and continue to grow.
SLU comes out as a big winner here as well. Proximity to Top Golf is a great recruiting point. Wouldn't be surprised if this land was specifically marketed to Top Golf for this reason.
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^I'm not really a golf fan myself, but I can attest that my wife, who doesn't know put-put golf from a country club, has been drug to Topgolf by her corporate peers. And she had a good enough time she's tried to drag my father and I out there as well. If it weren't in Chesterfield of Dreams I might almost be tempted to say yes. (But I'll drop a C-note at an overpriced bowling alley closer to home instead. At least until I learn better . . . or they build that city complex where I can watch the trains pass as I miss things.)
Topgolf - Chesterfield (looking southwest)
Many of their locations seem to have a nearly identical site plan, with the SW-NE range orientation, and the clubhouse and a large surface parking lot on the west side of the property. So, if you dropped this on the rumored Midtown site, the Compton Avenue viaduct would be where the road is that runs diagonally across the bottom left corner of the image, and Chouteau would be where that ditch is between the facility and North Outer 40 Road.
Bring it on! We do a lot of corporate events at Top Golf in Chesterfield, but it's a haul for anyone not already west. It's a really fun group activity that will get more people into town and see that it's "not as bad" as the reputation. These are people with serious cash and business power, in many cases. I'm all for it.
A wise friend of mine suggested the Union Pacific wasteland on Vandeventer south of MetroLink. They have a close proximity to ikea in a few other regions. Close to major employment centers, future bike/ped connections to Cortex & BJC, perfect synergy with Foundry customer base, still attract from SLU.
I doubt they’d ever be able to claw the 12 acres from Union Pacific though.
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I doubt they’d ever be able to claw the 12 acres from Union Pacific though.
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Wow, addxb2, steal my idea much? That's the last time I ever text you with a genius plan.
EDIT: Wow addxb2, not know how to say you edited a post?
EDIT: Wow addxb2, not know how to say you edited a post?
Not there! When I’m a ‘Bill Gates billionaire,’ I’m going to turn that into a life-sized diorama of a 1960s MoPac piggyback operation. Replete with gift shop.
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What they should really do is request to native-scape around the outside of the top golf facility so it doesn't look like a dirt skirt around it from 3 sides.
Looks like a great opportunity for an elevated running track and / or greenway extension to me, with the latter incorporating the Compton viaduct, along with plenty of space for a new mixed-use building at the corner of Chouteau / Compton. Perhaps some sort of entertainment retail space that would dovetail with the fancy driving range?pattimagee wrote: ↑Nov 26, 2019What they should really do is request to native-scape around the outside of the top golf facility so it doesn't look like a dirt skirt around it from 3 sides.
This would all be in Ward 19, so it's Marlene Davis, but I'm not sure it makes any difference as this entire site is part of the Kingdom of Saint Louis (university). They have total planning and development control, so if they think Chouteau Ave. should look like Chesterfield Airport Rd., then that's what it's going to look like.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Nov 25, 2019This is an excellent point and something that can and should be addressed. Who is the local alderperson here? Not sure if it's Ward 18 or 6... Either way, let's be those people who do speak up and request that they don't make it a sea of parking fronting Chouteau. The sooner we can all provide input and respectfully push for expectations here, the better!
A much better, and much more feasible site would be a combination of the First Student bus property on the right side of that image, and the Corrigan property between that and the Grand viaduct. It would be sandwiched between the Armory and Iron Hill developments, with someday maybe a Spring Avenue greenway connection over the railyard running right past the Topgolf "clubhouse". It would also tie in perfectly with SLU's wish list conference center hotel / event space at Spring / Chouteau.addxb2 wrote: ↑Nov 26, 2019A wise friend of mine suggested the Union Pacific wasteland on Vandeventer south of MetroLink. They have a close proximity to ikea in a few other regions. Close to major employment centers, future bike/ped connections to Cortex & BJC, perfect synergy with Foundry customer base, still attract from SLU.
I doubt they’d ever be able to claw the 12 acres from Union Pacific though.
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STL Biz Journal: Four Seasons to add Topgolf feature in 2020
The hotel's taking an office on the 8th floor (the one with Gerard Craft's Cinder House restaurant) and turning it into virtual golf, a "Topgolf Swing Suite". Looks like there'll be other games here, too: "zombie dodgeball, hockey shot, baseball pitching carnival classic, and more". They're putting around 340K into building this out, with the goal of having it up and running by 2Q 2020. Also, it sounds like this doesn't interfere with plans by Top Golf to expand into the City with a real driving range, and perhaps it'll further those efforts along.
The hotel's taking an office on the 8th floor (the one with Gerard Craft's Cinder House restaurant) and turning it into virtual golf, a "Topgolf Swing Suite". Looks like there'll be other games here, too: "zombie dodgeball, hockey shot, baseball pitching carnival classic, and more". They're putting around 340K into building this out, with the goal of having it up and running by 2Q 2020. Also, it sounds like this doesn't interfere with plans by Top Golf to expand into the City with a real driving range, and perhaps it'll further those efforts along.
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Friend of mine is in town from S.Korea (moved for work) and we wanted to go to top golf- got there at 1:00pm today and the said we should be able to get a bay around 3:30. So we left. City location can’t come soon enough
It's hard to believe, but a Topgolf facility wouldn't fit on the Bottle District site. They would have to acquire the Baptist church property at Cole / 7th, and even then I'm not sure it would fit.metzgda wrote: ↑Nov 25, 2019A great location to me would be the Bottle District site just north of the dome. There is a large amount of land available and it's walking distance from the Convention Center. Conventions are always on the lookout for event spaces and fun "outings" and this is an area that TopGolf plays very well in.
I also wonder about the Chouteau / Compton site. It looks like they would need to acquire a parcel that SLU doesn't own to make it fit...unless Denali 2 LLC is related to Topgolf. And by the way, isn't that Compton Ave. viaduct supposed to be demolished and rebuilt soon? That would reduce their access for a year or two, and would be an unpleasant view for an east-facing range, of course probably not much worse than the current view.
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Which parcel are you seeing that's owned by Denali 2 LLC? Looking at GeoSTL now and I don't see anything that isn't owned by SLU, except for the NE corner which is still Union Pacific land. As for the Compton Ave replacement, I doubt that they would make a decisions based on this. Grand and Jefferson will still be the main roads used to access Chouteau, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
3325 Chouteau was acquired by Denali 2, LLC in August. Without that parcel, Topgolf would have to put the clubhouse around the middle or NW corner of the site, with golfers facing to the southeast. That wouldn't leave much room for parking unless they acquire additional SLU property along Chouteau. This all assumes a facility the same size as the one in Chesterfield.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Dec 29, 2019Which parcel are you seeing that's owned by Denali 2 LLC? Looking at GeoSTL now and I don't see anything that isn't owned by SLU, except for the NE corner which is still Union Pacific land. As for the Compton Ave replacement, I doubt that they would make a decisions based on this. Grand and Jefferson will still be the main roads used to access Chouteau, so it wouldn't be that big of a deal.
BTW, Denali 2, LLC belongs to Sid Chakraverty of Lux Living (DeBaliviere Place, Soulard, Lafayette Square developer).
As for the Compton viaduct replacement, access may not be that much of a problem, assuming the city will wait to replace it until the new I-64 / Jefferson / 22nd St. interchange construction is finished - if the viaduct lasts that long...
I was thinking more of all of the jackhammers, pile drivers, bulldozers, dumptrucks, and large mounds of dirt and broken concrete that golfers will be hitting toward, just outside of the driving range net.
I was thinking more of all of the jackhammers, pile drivers, bulldozers, dumptrucks, and large mounds of dirt and broken concrete that golfers will be hitting toward, just outside of the driving range net.
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I still doubt short term (even if a year or two) construction would impact Top Golf’s long term plans. Heck, we may not get an official announcement for another 6 months then it may be a year + till it’s actually built and open. I just don’t see Compton construction factoring in at all here.
And interesting on the 3325 Choteau lot. Does SLU have eminent domain powers with their other development rights? Even if not, I’d imagine that they could be bought out for the right price or SLU could simply make any development plans impossible for the new owner.
And interesting on the 3325 Choteau lot. Does SLU have eminent domain powers with their other development rights? Even if not, I’d imagine that they could be bought out for the right price or SLU could simply make any development plans impossible for the new owner.
I don't remember where I read it, but Topgolf uses the same contractor, consultants, and plans on their projects, as much as possible, so they are cheaper to erect and can get them open in under a year once they acquire a site. The only thing that varies is the height of the clubhouse - either two or three levels of driving bays.chaifetz10 wrote: ↑Dec 30, 2019I still doubt short term (even if a year or two) construction would impact Top Golf’s long term plans. Heck, we may not get an official announcement for another 6 months then it may be a year + till it’s actually built and open. I just don’t see Compton construction factoring in at all here.
And interesting on the 3325 Choteau lot. Does SLU have eminent domain powers with their other development rights? Even if not, I’d imagine that they could be bought out for the right price or SLU could simply make any development plans impossible for the new owner.
No, SLU doesn't have eminent domain powers. But Hilliker had a sale sign on that property in June, and SLU just acquired all of the property around it, so I don't see how they would have let it get acquired by someone else unless they knew, and approved of, the developer's plans for it. Of course the Topgolf interest could be more recent, and may change things...