City/County Merger, Reentry, Board of Freeholders

STLEnginerd · PostMar 05, 2014#6262014-03-05T23:59+00:00

uh... St. Louis County. Clayton is the county seat and 20th largest city with a pitiful 16,XXX residents, Florrisant is the largest by population with 52,XXX people and Chesterfield second largest with 46,XXX (from wikipedia)

Also locally
Union MO is the county seat of Franklin County while Washington is the largest city. (by about 3,000 people)

Outstate Missouri
Jackson MO happens to be the county seat of Cape Girardeau County. I'm not sure how that happened as Cape Giradeau was always the largest city and also the oldest. I think it might have something to do with the historic idea that a county seat should be central to the county since when we were all riding in wagons it was important to minimize everyone's trip.

Also probably the largest peer city, Kansas City MO also happens to NOT be the seat of Jackson county the seat is in Independence MO, maybe this is a Missouri thing. Although they seem to have worked out a pseudo co-seat arrangement because KC is so important to the region. Most likely St. Louis would move that direction at some point unless mergers start happening.

There are plenty out of state as well but few that are peer cities. Usually it seems to stem from large growth in another city after the initial seat is determined, or a desire for a seat in a central location similar to why Jefferson City became the capital of Missouri and why there was a semi-serious proposal to move the nations capital to St. Louis.

Another notable example is New York City which consists of 5 counties, so five seats, sort of.

In truth though I think the city just has to take that on the chin. It only wounds their pride.

m2tbone · PostMar 06, 2014#6272014-03-06T00:03+00:00

I'm pretty sure Independence is the county seat of Jackson County, as opposed to Kansas City here in Missouri.

dmmonty1 · PostMar 06, 2014#6282014-03-06T00:17+00:00

I forgot about KC...funny since I used to live there and had to go to Independence once for jury duty! Well, I'd rather have Clayton than Independence for a county seat, I guess I should be thankful...

jstriebel · PostMar 06, 2014#6292014-03-06T01:42+00:00

I've started to change my mind on what I'd prefer. Maybe re-entry is better than a full merger. I'm really not sure.

I still would prefer a partial merger, but I don't think that will ever be on the table.

quincunx · PostMar 06, 2014#6302014-03-06T02:09+00:00

The county seat isn't moving, too expensive, people won't vote for it. Plus it's in a central location for easier access. That's why county seats and the state capital are in the centers of things.

I see reentry as a launchpad for other things and it makes those other things easier. For example if Jennings wanted to be annexed into the city it takes the same process as reentry (The Board of Freeholders) in fact adding one acre of land into the city takes the BoF. That's why the borders haven't changed since 1876. If we accomplish reentry annexation would be a more usual process, either under the state statue or the county's boundary commission. Same for combining health depts we'd either end a state statute or a BoF process whereas after reentry we just decide as a county. At least I hope so; I would like to know if reentry is done under BoF if things after that still require a BoF. Certainly achieving reentry via a constitutional amendment could wipe out all the BoF stuff and after we work like normal for St. Louis County.

Gateway City · PostMar 06, 2014#6312014-03-06T02:17+00:00

I really like the idea of a borough system. It could be the City and Mid-County together as one, South County and part of West County as another, and North County and the rest of West County as the third (it should be an odd number). Then most of the County would still be "separate" from St. Louis and do things its own way. At the same time, the core of the region would include both the City and Clayton together, and the County Seat would still be there. Clayton would essentially be Uptown St. Louis. Maybe it could be a neighborhood wherein it still has the same laws and whathaveyou that it does now in its current form as a municipality.

jstriebel · PostMar 06, 2014#6322014-03-06T02:19+00:00

A borough system is ideal in my mind as well. Love that idea.

stlhistory · PostMar 06, 2014#6332014-03-06T02:36+00:00

STL already rejected a borough plan (twice) in the 1960s and the 1930s because it was too radical. Let's keep it simple, folks. St. Louis city needs to reenter St. Louis County as the 91st municipality. Then it can grow through annexation, just like every other city in America.

framer · PostMar 06, 2014#6342014-03-06T02:40+00:00

stlhistory wrote: Let's keep it simple, folks. St. Louis city needs to reenter St. Louis County as the 91st municipality. Then it can grow through annexation, just like every other city in America.

Yup.

quincunx · PostMar 06, 2014#6352014-03-06T02:54+00:00

roger wyoming II · PostMar 06, 2014#6362014-03-06T02:54+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: Also probably the largest peer city, Kansas City MO also happens to NOT be the seat of Jackson county the seat is in Independence MO, maybe this is a Missouri thing.

Independence is one of the older cities along the river.... Kansas City was a relative latecomer although Westport and a few other areas that are not part of the city were established earlier.

Gateway City · PostMar 06, 2014#6372014-03-06T03:10+00:00

framer wrote:
stlhistory wrote: Let's keep it simple, folks. St. Louis city needs to reenter St. Louis County as the 91st municipality. Then it can grow through annexation, just like every other city in America.
Yup.

As long as that annexation does eventually happen.

jstriebel · PostMar 06, 2014#6382014-03-06T04:27+00:00

I agree, I'm just afraid that annexation won't happen. All the inner ring suburbs that would make sense for annexation may never accept it.

St. Louis as a city would be so great if it included Maplewood, Richmond Heights, U-City, Clayton, Shrewsbury, etc. But what's their motivation to let it happen?

I wish they understood why it was a good idea, but I kind of doubt they'll settle for that.

STLEnginerd · PostMar 06, 2014#6392014-03-06T04:29+00:00

^even if it doesn't St. Louis will still be better off.

Gateway City · PostMar 06, 2014#6402014-03-06T04:43+00:00

Re-entry is good enough for now. I just think a merger would be great in the future. It may be a generation away, but I would like to see it happen in my lifetime.

pat · PostMar 06, 2014#6412014-03-06T14:06+00:00

I think the only way you annex other cities is when they are financially unstable and can't provide services to their constituents. There's no reason for a lot of inner ring municipalities to become part of the city since they're doing just fine on their own.

BrickCity4470 · PostMar 06, 2014#6422014-03-06T14:20+00:00

So when do you think they'll put a city/county merger on the ballot ?? 10-20-30-40 years from now ?

quincunx · PostMar 06, 2014#6432014-03-06T14:33+00:00

Better Together did some polling. They found that 2/3+ people rate their local gov't good or excellent. This is why wholesale taking towns away from people is playing with fire.

http://www.bettertogetherstl.com/wp-con ... Report.pdf

roger wyoming II · PostMar 06, 2014#6442014-03-06T14:51+00:00

pat wrote:I think the only way you annex other cities is when they are financially unstable and can't provide services to their constituents. There's no reason for a lot of inner ring municipalities to become part of the city since they're doing just fine on their own.

Right... in the next decade or two the only ones that might have any interest in being annexed would be poorer ones that would be an additional burden on services for the CIty. But I do worry as well about some of the inner-ring suburbs like Shrewsbury and even ones further out like Crestwood.... places that skew old in population and aren't particularly attractive to young families -- a demographic that is going to be needed in large numbers as the older population ages out. It sure will be an interesting next couple of decades as we see how population movement patterns change.

jstriebel · PostMar 06, 2014#6452014-03-06T15:50+00:00

And that's where my original desire to see a full merger comes from. I feel like those inner ring suburbs really belong in the city. They're within what most cities would consider normal geographic boundaries and they're largely urban.

But because of the divide, now our options are either we get none of them and have no relationship, we get none of them and become their peer within the county, or we get them all plus places like Chesterfield that shouldn't reasonably be within city limits.

It's not an ideal spot to be in, that's for sure.

roger wyoming II · PostMar 06, 2014#6462014-03-06T16:12+00:00

^ If we had a full merger that would be pretty insane.... we'd have over 550 square miles of land, placing it near the tops in land mass (the only city I can think of that might still be larger is Houston). As you mention, places like Chesterfield and even moreso Eureka and Wildwood, etc. really don't seem to fit in.

matguy70 · PostAug 23, 2014#6472014-08-23T02:19+00:00

Great Article this week!

http://www.govexec.com/state-local/2014 ... oref=river

quincunx · PostOct 26, 2016#6482016-10-26T00:09+00:00

Stltoday - Could St. Louis become the 91st municipality in St. Louis County?

Are St. Louis County municipalities ready to welcome St. Louis city into the fold?

The Municipal League of Metro St. Louis could roll out the red carpet for the city’s reentry to St. Louis County in a vote Thursday, an endorsement that would advance the long simmering issue.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metr ... b7ad6.html

goat314 · PostOct 26, 2016#6492016-10-26T03:12+00:00

^ Honestly, this sounds like county municipalities recognizing that change is inevitable and they rather get in front of a potential merger. The city entering the county as the 91st municipality is a big step, but let's be honest here.....UNIGOV is what St. Louis really needs and would make competition for jobs against Nashville, Indianapolis, and Louisville easier.

RockChalkSTL · PostOct 26, 2016#6502016-10-26T04:17+00:00

Yeah, I'd love to see a Unigov St. Louis. No more city, no more county.

1.3 million residents.

City/County Merger, Reentry, Board of Freeholders

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