urbanSTL

Quincunx: Be very careful about how political office seats open up. They could derail the whole thing.

Within the plan as you have shown above, you recommend that the Saint Louis County Council expands by 2 seats to incorporate the City of Saint Louis having representation on the Council. Doing so would be a de facto inclusion of two Democrats to the Council.

For the last few election cycles, the County Council has swung majority between Democrats & Republicans over and over, usually keeping a balance of 4-3, and with the biggest battles usually being within the Fifth (Mid County) and Sixth (South County) Districts, both of which border the City of Saint Louis. The addition of two Democrats (don't think STL City is going GOP any time soon) to the County Council would establish a long-term super majority for the Democrats within the Council.

Here, you will see a major, and honestly justifiable, push by the GOP against merger if such a merger means surrendering the reasonable potential for leadership within the County's legislative body. Fighting this would receive strong funding from the GOP, both within the STL Metro Area and from Outstate MO. What may be conceived as a reasonable, justifiable, and almost procedural piece of legislation has potential to quickly become a political landmine that could wreck the whole thing.

For anything like this to succeed, look at the County Council's website (http://www.stlouisco.com/YourGovernment/CountyCouncil) and read up about the County Council Reapportionment Commission, how it will be redefining the boundaries of the Council Districts based on the 2010 Census. Something like this will have to be incorporated into a merged City-County government. But, any change in government must not initially distrupt the relative balance of power / status quo too much, or it will be doomed from the start.

Perhaps there could be a long-term (i.e.: decades) phase-in of Council representation from the City? But no matter what, a short-term granting of two Council seats to City representation could derail the whole thing from the start.

Disclosure: I'm a non-partisan former political consultant who successfully managed the election of a candidate to Chairman of the County Council. And I strongly support City-County merger.

Not retaining Republican voters isn't a bad problem to have. Let the sticks have them. The Democratic party is increasingly the party of educated, liberal, high income city dwellers - a category which I assume is growing based on census income data and which will ultimately be responsible for creating the future of the region.

In STL I realize it (D) is also the party of poor, black, uneducated city dwellers (I always get the impression poor and uneducated whites vote (R) for some reason), but I don't know if that is a growing or shrinking category. Not sure where I'm going with that, except to say that I think one of the big political challenges here is that the D tent has to be a bit broader here than other places with less poverty and race issues, which probably drives some otherwise Democratic voters to be reactionary Republicans. Just speculation.

All that said, a stronger Democratic identity, which we embrace rather than wear with embarassment, is a necessary step in rejuvenating the region, creating unity, and moving forward with the kind of amazing city we deserve and we will get. Another messaging opportunity for the city/region: If you are young, liberal, smart, entrepreneurial, and awesome, we want you!

^ Recognize that you're saying this with a Democrat majority in the County Council, a Democrat County Executive, a Democrat Prosecuting Attorney, and a Democrat-led Economic Council in Saint Louis County. The constituency for STL County, meanwhile, remains around 30% Democrat, 30% Republican, and 40% Independent.

Meanwhile, the City of Saint Louis does have two political parties: North Side Democrats & South Side Democrats. The big City-based US House battle is between Carnahan and Clay, who have voted 95% of the time in line with each other.

Jeff City does have a GOP-led General Assembly, both the House & Senate. But, Governor Nixon is a Democrat.

Federally, MO has a somewhat even mix of Democrats and Republicans, including dual party representation in the US Senate.

My question: With such a plurality of local representation, how can this be too right-centered? Are you going to blame Jeff City for STL's problems? I know I have my issues with certain members of the General Assembly, mostly Republican members, but I won't look at the Democrat majorities in STL and say it's too GOP to be a progressive City.

You want blame, then cast it at the people content with the status quo. Which, yes, is bicameral.

It is exactly this sort of mentality, one of political exclusion, that will derail City-County Merger.

I think the intraparty issue here is we have is there are a lot of old breed Democrats that are still living in the past, dealing with obsolete racial and union issues (the left's equivalent to the right's obsession with GGG), and apologizing for their liberalism - and who have totally dropped the ball on forward movement. All the while a new breed of Dem has emerged that is way more focused on the future, post organized labor economics (because unions are basically dead for now), technology, sustainability, localism, overall human rights, and making cities awesome - and who could give a f if someone thinks they're too liberal, and who don't really care what happened 40 years ago or whatever. I am of the latter, and I find the former extremely frustrating because they are scared to death of what the big bad conservatives will do to them and they let themselves be held hostage to that kind of thinking. That is the problem. If the old breed are just going to behave as dead weight and their greatest accomplishment is not offending the far right, who needs them?

The Young Turks can do battle with the Old Guard as much as they like over the future of the Democratic Party...

... But if you isolate, and infuriate, the GOP constituency of STL County -- while making it look to the casual voter like a blatant Democratic Party power grab -- any efforts towards Merger will lose, and all other efforts towards Merger will be put back by at least a generation of voters.

Quincunx: Take your time here until you get a proposal that would work with both sides. Depending on how involved you are with this effort, you may want to reach out to people within STL County's GOP, see what they think would be fair, and incorporate. Know that only through multi-party support will Merger be accomplished.

... But if you isolate, and infuriate, the GOP constituency of STL County --

...then they will migrate further into the exurbs and save us a ton of trouble. It's a win-win. Now let's channel Paul Wellstone!

onecity wrote:

... But if you isolate, and infuriate, the GOP constituency of STL County --

...then they will migrate further into the exurbs and save us a ton of trouble. It's a win-win. Now let's channel Paul Wellstone!

I'm still here; hell, I moved to the City from the County.

There's a lot of fiscal conservatives just like me in the City, and even moreso in the County. You think all these brokerages, private equity firms, mergers & acquisitions shops, law firms, accountants, consultants, advertisers, and (for God's sake) weapons manufacturers are filled with liberal Democrats? It's a whole different breed of conservatives, dude. Out in the sticks is where you'll find the people that need to read about the separation of church & state; here, we read the business section. Did you think everyone who hangs out at the Tin Can is there for Drinking Liberally? Here's a surprise: No way.

And while I'm very much in favor of Merger, I tell you that a full institutional power shift to the Left will kill Merger. Instead of isolating the GOP, the efforts must be made to work with them, otherwise they'll turn against this hard. And if the Independent Majority sees a blatant power grab, they'll turn on Merger immediately.

Man... Trying to work together, but everyone fragmenting politically as we talk about coming together...

This is why we can't have nice things.


Let's end the partisanship now. It'll only get us further from where we need to be.

The partisanship can end today if the rest of the left, like me, disowns the obsolete thinkers of the 60s and 70s and the racialists, and the right tells the "christian" right theocrats and Norquister-anti-taxers to screw off. Then we can be adults and get things done again.

one city wrote:a new breed .... has emerged that is way more focused on the future, post organized labor economics (because unions are basically dead for now), technology, sustainability, localism, overall human rights, and making cities awesome

I think you just described a Crunchy Con.

The way forward transcends politics, but unfortunately, politics kill everything.

^By and large agree, but it mustn't be approached or interpreted as placating. Two County Council seats to STL City would be a de facto two seats to the Democrats, totally disrupting the balance of power. While it is possible that other, non-GOP districts could move to the right in the face of the City's entry to the County Council under Quincunx's scenario, such organic constituent sways cannot be assumed. And, it surely won't be by 30% of STL County, who would then actively fight merger. This is the last thing any of us needs.

Onecity: I appreciate your fervency, and trust me that there are many non-affiliated fiscal conservatives who are socially liberal and could give a fark what certain right-leaning idiots in outstate think. I'm sure you and I would approach multiple issues on the exact same side (if you're involved in the Dem party in STL, there's a chance we've met a few times). That stated, your partisanship must be set aside for the interests of seeing merger become a viable option. It mustn't be a vendetta against your political opposites; we must think of the greater good and the needs of all of STL, not just political self-interests.
(ha, now who sounds like the left-winger...)

Quincunx: I personally see two viable options...
1. City representation on the County Council is phased-in over a decades-long period, i.e. the City gets its first representation on the County Council after twelve years (three full election cycles), then its second after either 16 or 20 years (fourth & fifth post-merger election cycles); or
2. The City of Saint Louis, in a merged environment, remains a largely independent entity. While City/County services are shared between both entities (schools, parks, police, etc.), the governmental structures are largely separate. Best example I can find, and pardon the hyperbole, is Hong Kong being a separate "special economic zone" from mainland China; while Beijing remains the capital, HK is almost autonomous.

Just some thoughts...

gonecorporate: We probably are mostly on the same side. And I can totally set aside partisanship as long as the goals are improving STL. But as my temperament is not suited to politics, we most likely have not met in political circles.

Could we keep the County Council at 7 seats, just changing District geographies to include STL City?

Also, what would the City Aldermanic Council do, like literally do all day, if the County Council has authority over STL City?