urbanSTL

The Municipal League put forth a plan to create an accountability system akin to the one for school districts. Here's a P-D editorial on it:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/opinion/co ... 88454.html

An interesting document encouraging disincorporation in Allegheny County (Pittsburgh) from the 90s.

Reclaiming Hope - Voluntary Disincorporation in Allegheny County

http://www.briem.com/files/LucchinoDisincorporate1.pdf

Just thought I'd add this to the discussion. http://stlworldclasscity.com/?page=world_class_city
Compiled by an UMSL professor this makes a great case for both why and why not to merge the city and county. A few pages seem to have been updated though, because I found some information I've never seen before, like the case for turning the city into the county's 92nd district by 2014: http://stlworldclasscity.com/?page=what_we_believe
Worth reading, really gets you excited to live in such a great region!

Here's a discussion of City reentry on The McGraw Show from this morning featuring Ambassador Bert Walker, Alderman Antonio French and Alderman Hugh Scott (former Clayton). Walker and Scott are on board, French was not.

I saw a little tidbit in Jerry Berger's column that got me thinking...(ignore the title on the URL and read down for a bit about the County & City police departments.)

http://bergersbeat.com/sex-offenses-on- ... -watching/

We've talked quite a bit about a City/County merger (and/or City re-entry into the county, or whatever you want to call it) so this tidbit was interesting.

I could see a City/County merger taking a bottom-up approach like this overall, with services & agencies gradually combining until they're effectively merged.

I'll bet it ends up being sort of like a couple who start out with her having a drawer for her stuff at his place, morphing into staying there on the weekends, then moving in together, and eventually something like "what the heck, let's just get married".

justme123 wrote:I saw a little tidbit in Jerry Berger's column that got me thinking...(ignore the title on the URL and read down for a bit about the County & City police departments.)

http://bergersbeat.com/sex-offenses-on- ... -watching/

We've talked quite a bit about a City/County merger (and/or City re-entry into the county, or whatever you want to call it) so this tidbit was interesting.

I could see a City/County merger taking a bottom-up approach like this overall, with services & agencies gradually combining until they're effectively merged.

I'll bet it ends up being sort of like a couple who start out with her having a drawer for her stuff at his place, morphing into staying there on the weekends, then moving in together, and eventually something like "what the heck, let's just get married".

Good thought. But who makes the first serious proposal? Right now, the County is thinking, "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?"

gary kreie wrote:

justme123 wrote:I saw a little tidbit in Jerry Berger's column that got me thinking...(ignore the title on the URL and read down for a bit about the County & City police departments.)

http://bergersbeat.com/sex-offenses-on- ... -watching/

We've talked quite a bit about a City/County merger (and/or City re-entry into the county, or whatever you want to call it) so this tidbit was interesting.

I could see a City/County merger taking a bottom-up approach like this overall, with services & agencies gradually combining until they're effectively merged.

I'll bet it ends up being sort of like a couple who start out with her having a drawer for her stuff at his place, morphing into staying there on the weekends, then moving in together, and eventually something like "what the heck, let's just get married".

Good thought. But who makes the first serious proposal? Right now, the County is thinking, "Why buy the cow when the milk is free?"

I just can't see them being able to continue thinking that way for long. They lost population in the last census and their infrastructure is certainly beginning to show its age. As both those continue I think you'll start to see more serious discussion of how we could consider a proposal for the city to reenter the county.

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ It will take at least another Census for the county to panic. The response this time was nothing, absolutely no response. If you look at municipal plans in the city, they're planning for growth.

definitely agree, most of the muni's leadership in the county are too busy trying to take away a Walmart from some other muni or land the next Menards as a means of balancing budgets or maintaining the mini fiefdoms. At a minimum, the last census should have been a wake up call to inner suburbs with ready made infrastructure, transit and central location. Unfortunately, county doesn't have much control over munis, development and zoning at the end of the day and the result is starting to show.

Instead, I think things are looking a lot better in city if they can keep the momentum going for the downtown/central corridor as well as slowly but surely making headways on schools. Reducing alderman and pushing more infrastructure, either it be a rebuilt 22nd street interchange or having metrolink promoting more transit service, will only help the city in the long run.

Alex Ihnen wrote:^ It will take at least another Census for the county to panic. The response this time was nothing, absolutely no response. If you look at municipal plans in the city, they're planning for growth.

I don't doubt that's true. At this point 10 years, in comparison to how long the situation is as its been, doesn't seem like all that long in the grand scheme of things. I'd certainly rather there be progress before then, of course -- but I'm not exactly holding my breath.

Schools won't improve until socioeconomic disparity decreases. It's a joke to think that Charter schools will solve the problem. In short, the problem is societal in nature and not solved by throwing more money at schools.

innov8ion wrote:Schools won't improve until socioeconomic disparity decreases. It's a joke to think that Charter schools will solve the problem. In short, the problem is societal in nature and not solved by throwing more money at schools.

The issue with the schools is that there are actually two essentially separate issues at play here and they're running parallel to each other.

The first piece is how do you ensure that urban-minded middle class families have access to schools they deem acceptable so they will live in, and pay taxes to, the city.

The second piece is how do we ensure that we're not completely failing those students who don't have positive role models at home, but who, if left to fend for themselves, will end up being a drain on taxpayer money (whether through social welfare or incarceration) for many years to come.

There isn't one answer that magically solves both of those problems, but it would be short sighted to suggest that school choice doesn't play at least somewhat into both pieces. Especially when you realize how cutthroat the lottery process is and how many more students would like to be a part of the magnet and/or charter program than currently are able to.

Ha just being a little snarky. I do worry about the moral hazard of segregating away what you deem to be problem kids. It might work but the history books might not be so kind.

I'm not informed enough on how the schools work though to make a educated suggestion on how to fix the problems though.

Mostly I just think schools are a lagging indicator on how well the city is doing since it takes a few years before the new residents actually get there. I'd focus reducing subsidies for suburban lifestyles the rest is sort of self correcting over the long term.

Also if we keep talking schools I feel we should move to a different thread.

^Well said. Children spend maybe 8hrs of their day at school. The other 16 is spent at home. There's only so much a school system can do if the child's education isn't being reinforced by the family.

This can turn into a circular argument though. People argue you can't fix the education problem until you fix the poverty problem. But how do you fix the poverty problem for people that are uneducated?

They're intertwined. You have to attack both together, which is not an easy task. Not sure what the answer is. I think you almost need an education system for adults. Maybe you have something similar to Charter schools that offer technical and family education to those below the poverty line. I know there are charities and organization that may do that already, but I'm thinking something much more extensive.

^To your first issue, I think its safe to assume that corruption exists in the west and south county municipalities. The city's gets more attention big its on a much larger scale. But more to the point, I don't think you can reduce that fear. People seem to fear corruption in government across the board.

To your second issue, we don't need to merge the city and county so much that they operate under the same government. I don't anybody really sees that happening. But you can merge those redundant areas that we both have - fire, police, parks, waste, etc.