Centene Corporation HQs

appraisalman · PostJul 12, 2007#2012007-07-12T21:42+00:00

The market price cannont be set until a sale has been consumated. Therefore in the case of Centenne, the propert owners weren't holding out for market price. If you look at the sales comps in the area....ie. the montgomery bank sale just up the street You'll get a good idea of what the true market value is. The very definition of market value is:

The most probable price which a property should bring in a competitive and open market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, the buyer and seller, each acting prudently, knowledgeably, and assuming the price is not affected by undue stimulus.

and it implies in the last sentence that the sale of this property would not of been at market value.

wheelscomp · PostJul 13, 2007#2022007-07-13T05:42+00:00

Hey the definition is all good and nice, but frankly, if you had a major corporation walk into your establishment and offer you a number and then said vacate the building within a year, wouldnt you hold out for more cash? The point Im trying to make is that if Centene wanted the property so bad, then the owners were perfectly within reason to ask for more. At least thats what I think someone would do.

Ill quote one of my alltime favorite movies here... Planes, Trains, and Automobiles:

Neal Paige (Steve Martin): Sir? I'm desperately late for a flight, and I was wondering I could appeal to your good nature and ask you to let me have your cab.

Suit: I don't have a good nature. Excuse me.

Neal: I'll offer you 10 dollars for it.

Suit: I'll take 50.

[Neal gets money out of wallet...]

Suit: Anyone who'd pay 50 dollars for a cab, would certainly pay 75.

Neal: Not necessarily. Alright. 75. You're a thief!

Suit: Close, I'm an attorney.

Neal: Have a happy holiday.

Suit: This'll help...

debaliviere · PostJul 13, 2007#2032007-07-13T13:41+00:00

According to the Business Journal:

Dooley has submitted 12 privately-owned sites in St. Louis County

Slay has personally contacted Centene's CEO and has sent him a list of building sites

Centene is now looking to build a "campus style" facility

markofucity · PostJul 13, 2007#2042007-07-13T14:13+00:00

to hell with their campus ..... they need an 80 story campus overlooking busch stadium

Alex Ihnen · PostJul 13, 2007#2052007-07-13T14:38+00:00

DeBaliviere wrote:Centene is now looking to build a "campus style" facility

BLEH!

stlmizzoutiger · PostJul 13, 2007#2062007-07-13T16:35+00:00

markofucity wrote:to hell with their campus ..... they need an 80 story campus overlooking busch stadium

How about a campus in the Bottle District? It's not like they're using the land for anything else?

arch city · PostJul 13, 2007#2072007-07-13T17:37+00:00

If Centene is adamant about building a "campus-style" facility that pretty much rules out the city unless they can be lured to the Bottle District or the Ballpark Village. But with the rebuilding of I-64, Centene might be more inclined to look west unless the city offers a hellified incentive package. The city should do whatever it takes to get Centene to move downtown though.

For St. Louis County, I could see them going to Northpark, the old Gumbo site in Chesterfield, or in Sachs new development - Park & Main - also in Chesterfield.

I feel bad for Clayton, which really stuck its neck out for Centene, but the property owner holdouts practically killed it for Clayton. If I were CEO of Centene, I don't think I would want to be neighbors with those property owners either. The three property owners probably feel likewise. Furthermore, why should Centene build on their existing Clayton site which will only make the holdouts' properties more valuable? Centene can now holdout. Lets see how the three properties values rise now. Screw 'em.

I wonder if Clayton will begin to lose some of its luster.

southslider · PostJul 13, 2007#2082007-07-13T18:57+00:00

Someone else will realize that a half-block in downtown Clayton is nothing to sneeze at. Only companies like Centene apparently can't envision anything other than full-block or campus-style developments.

stlmizzoutiger · PostJul 13, 2007#2092007-07-13T19:02+00:00

Somehow this story from The Onion has a lot in common with the Centene situation in Clayton:

Sh*tty Neighborhood Rallies Against A**hole Developer

June 23, 2007 | Issue 43•25

CHICAGO—Residents of the Carney Gardens neighborhood on Chicago's South Side are opposing an effort by a**hole real-estate developer Royce Messner to build a godawful $45 million strip mall and condominium complex in the crime-ridden *hole they call home.

Residents march to protect their beloved, execrable squalor.

The Save Carney Neighborhood Foundation, the most organized non-criminal group in this part of town, has filed a lawsuit in federal court to block the scheduled April 2008 groundbreaking. While halting the project would surely prevent a tragic urban-planning nightmare, it would also mean keeping the run-down, economically depressed community exactly as it is...

newstl2020 · PostJul 13, 2007#2102007-07-13T19:28+00:00

While I see the reasons for wanting to stay county based (more land that's easier to obtain), I can't help but wonder why companies like this wouldn't want to attempt to be located downtown before moving all the way to chesterfield. I would think, even though downtown is not yet great and is still well away from being considered a comeback city, there would be some level of prestige to come from being located in a skyscraper in the cbd of a fairly major city. Allthough it would obviously be better for St. Louis for Centene to be located in a county rather than another city alltogether, it's going to hurt the metropolitan area if this company moves out of clayton and doesn't relocate to downtown. I really hope Slay gets his act together on this one. If he manages to lure Centene to downtown...could it possibly be the defining act of his mayoral stay? Seeing a company like this move downtown would have to create interest in the possibility from other companies as well...

metzgda · PostJul 13, 2007#2112007-07-13T19:55+00:00

Well, if they want a "campus-style" facility, I doubt anything Slay can do will convince them to move downtown.

I guess I feel different than the majority of companies. I think there would be definate prestige and excitement to go downtown. Land is probably cheaper to acquire than in many areas of the county, which I would imagine helps make it almost the same price to build tall downtown as horizontal in the burbs. Also, there's the added benefit of all the retail around you, plus access to major hotels and attractions for out-of-town clients.

My guess - the executive board primarily lives far west of the city, and they don't want the commutes in their cars to be any longer than they already were. Sad.

I guess I'll hold out hope that they just stay in the STL area.

appraisalman · PostJul 13, 2007#2122007-07-13T20:15+00:00

Actually, land downtown is a lot more expensive than land in the county....that's why you see the the population moving west. (cheaper land to build on)

beer city · PostJul 13, 2007#2132007-07-13T20:18+00:00

The shift to a campus does not make sense if they have been pursuing a high rise solution.

Companies that prefer campus development usually have a very different human resources structure from those that seek high-rises, for one company to shift gears in thought with in a week does not make sense. This could be posturing.

Downtown, or the city probably will not happen w/o a load of incentives and breaks, due to the earnings tax and other negative perceptions of the city. But you never know.

The 64/40 shut down should not affect the final decision in any way, because in a best case scenario it would be 30 months till the moving trucks show up after design and construction, 64/40 will be a few months from being complete (and yes I do believe that)

wheelscomp · PostJul 13, 2007#2142007-07-13T20:19+00:00

This will not be the first time its been brought up, and certainly not the last, but the city does have that one minor thing called the earnings tax that makes companies wary of moving downtown. Its been discussed to death, but why not buy realllly cheap land in Offalon, build a nice little campus for your HQ, AND save the 2 cents on every dollar you earn that would be taxed if your HQ was downtown.

stlmizzoutiger · PostJul 13, 2007#2152007-07-13T20:31+00:00

wheelscomp wrote:This will not be the first time its been brought up, and certainly not the last, but the city does have that one minor thing called the earnings tax that makes companies wary of moving downtown. Its been discussed to death, but why not buy realllly cheap land in Offalon, build a nice little campus for your HQ, AND save the 2 cents on every dollar you earn that would be taxed if your HQ was downtown.

St. Louis needs to get rid of that tax or come up with a way to circumvent it to spur new development and investment within the city.

newstl2020 · PostJul 14, 2007#2162007-07-14T00:09+00:00

No point in having an earnings tax when there is no earning being done to tax. Our city leaders need to get their acts together and start to model off successful cities. I know the subject is a sore one, but goddamnit do whatever it takes to be more like Chicago instead of more like Oklahoma city.

jcity · PostJul 14, 2007#2172007-07-14T22:08+00:00

I wonder if Clayton will begin to lose some of its luster.

yeah... the highest office rates in the region...

arch city · PostJul 15, 2007#2182007-07-15T08:53+00:00

JCity wrote:yeah... the highest office rates in the region...

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't say Clayton has lost its luster, I said wonder if it will begin to lose its luster - ie its appeal with some big businesses.

Clayton has a lost of few firms over the years to other 'burbs and the city. Smurfit-Stone is gone and it is likely Centene will bolt. Plus, Isle of Capri didn't even locate there when it moved to St. Louis. It chose Creve Coeur.

Of course it has some of the highest office rates - it's been appealing to many, but there's a difference between having it now and maintaining it in the future.

I think this Centene debacle could hurt Clayton's appeal - even if a little.

bonwich · PostJul 15, 2007#2192007-07-15T14:30+00:00

"Clayton," the government entity, has had problems for years and years. Ask any restaurant owner there.

Here's a real-world story of Clayton governmental attitude: About 10 years ago, I used to work for a company that hosted a conference at the Ritz-Carlton, with spillover to the nearby two other hotels. We brought in 500 people from all over the world for 5 to 10 days.

We approached Clayton and suggested they work with the local restaurant community to offer a 5-10 percent discount to participants in the conference. The City of Clayton flat out refused, and one talented bureaucrat said pointedly that they "didn't want to be seen as promoting specific restaurants."

Every time I tell this story to Clayton restaurateurs, they nod knowingly.

bastiat · PostJul 15, 2007#2202007-07-15T16:01+00:00

bonwich wrote:"Clayton," the government entity, has had problems for years and years. Ask any restaurant owner there.

Here's a real-world story of Clayton governmental attitude: About 10 years ago, I used to work for a company that hosted a conference at the Ritz-Carlton, with spillover to the nearby two other hotels. We brought in 500 people from all over the world for 5 to 10 days.

We approached Clayton and suggested they work with the local restaurant community to offer a 5-10 percent discount to participants in the conference. The City of Clayton flat out refused, and one talented bureaucrat said pointedly that they "didn't want to be seen as promoting specific restaurants."

Every time I tell this story to Clayton restaurateurs, they nod knowingly.

Why didn't you approach the local restaurant community yourself?

stlmizzoutiger · PostJul 16, 2007#2212007-07-16T03:25+00:00

Bastiat wrote:
bonwich wrote:"Clayton," the government entity, has had problems for years and years. Ask any restaurant owner there.

Here's a real-world story of Clayton governmental attitude: About 10 years ago, I used to work for a company that hosted a conference at the Ritz-Carlton, with spillover to the nearby two other hotels. We brought in 500 people from all over the world for 5 to 10 days.

We approached Clayton and suggested they work with the local restaurant community to offer a 5-10 percent discount to participants in the conference. The City of Clayton flat out refused, and one talented bureaucrat said pointedly that they "didn't want to be seen as promoting specific restaurants."

Every time I tell this story to Clayton restaurateurs, they nod knowingly.

Why didn't you approach the local restaurant community yourself?

Good question!

jcity · PostJul 16, 2007#2222007-07-16T03:35+00:00

I think it's comical to think that Clayton has "lost its luster" because ONE company right now might consider moving. Did Clayton "lose it's luster" when General Dynamics vacated Pierre Laclede 20 + years ago? I don't think so. It's pretty easy to see which office market in the region has the highest demand, the one with the highest rates. Yes, I hope Centene decides to stay and I hope the owners of those buildings consider selling, but I don't think Clayton is "losing its luster". Clayton could definitely work on a few things, retail, etc, but come on.

DogtownBnR · PostAug 22, 2007#2232007-08-22T20:01+00:00

Anyone hear anything new regarding Centene's plans? Just wondering.

chrisindowntown · PostAug 22, 2007#2242007-08-22T20:34+00:00

For good karma reasons...can we move this into the "City" section, out of teh county with the dream that they'll build DT?

10-intuition · PostAug 31, 2007#2252007-08-31T15:51+00:00

There is an article in the biz journal about Centene narrowing down its sites for a new building. I don't have a subscription to their online site, but it says they narrowed it down to 2 sites in the county, 1 in the city, and possible relocation to Colorado or Virginia. Those two states are possibly offering incentives to lure Centene.

Centene Corporation HQs

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