I think you are talking about Oceano. I have a friend that ate there and said it was mediocre at best. I did not mean to say Clayton isn't pleasent, however I am more acustomed to my neighborhood (CWE). Clayton certainly is unique (how many places in STL will you see a sculpture with a man on a horse on a major street?)
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Why so many naysayers?
With a metropolis of 2.8 million we can afford to have multiple high rent districts and hopefully revived ones too. The nature of St. Louis's economic concentration is the central corridor and historically the riverfront. Clayton is in the central corridor and preserves a degree of centralization for the core of St. Louis County. The greater the economic concentration in Clayton the greater the attraction of the inner ring suburbs with accessibility to it. Example: Bel-Nor is just a scenic drive up four-lane wide Hanley from Clayton or 5 miles from inside the city/subdivision. Berkley is eight miles. Brentwood is three miles or less.
The potential of most of these suburbs remains untapped especially to the north of Olive Blvd where well-built and 1910s-1930s historic homes remain in good condition.
The revival of the inner suburbs and transformation into a dense part of the region's urban core is possible due to proximity to the growing economic concentration in Clayton as well as the rapid regrowth in Downtown and CWE.
Therefore, the Carondelet Village is another step to a greater recentalized core.
With a metropolis of 2.8 million we can afford to have multiple high rent districts and hopefully revived ones too. The nature of St. Louis's economic concentration is the central corridor and historically the riverfront. Clayton is in the central corridor and preserves a degree of centralization for the core of St. Louis County. The greater the economic concentration in Clayton the greater the attraction of the inner ring suburbs with accessibility to it. Example: Bel-Nor is just a scenic drive up four-lane wide Hanley from Clayton or 5 miles from inside the city/subdivision. Berkley is eight miles. Brentwood is three miles or less.
The potential of most of these suburbs remains untapped especially to the north of Olive Blvd where well-built and 1910s-1930s historic homes remain in good condition.
The revival of the inner suburbs and transformation into a dense part of the region's urban core is possible due to proximity to the growing economic concentration in Clayton as well as the rapid regrowth in Downtown and CWE.
Therefore, the Carondelet Village is another step to a greater recentalized core.
BPE235, thanks for posting the rendering. Handsome development, though I am still having trouble understanding just exactly where this is located. Is there a place to see an overview of the development and how it relates to the streets and metrolink?
Also, thanks for sticking up for Clayton. Clayton is an important part of the St. Louis package.
Also, thanks for sticking up for Clayton. Clayton is an important part of the St. Louis package.
- 8,918
as far as I know... Trianno will be built behind the ritz from FPP west to Ritz Carlton dr. (the road from the circle fountain NE to Forsyth.)
This project would cover the empy space boardered by RCD to the south and east, Forsyth to the north and the Crescent and S. Lyle drive to the west.
The rendering I posted shows the view looking north east up RCD. The tall building in the back ground must be Triannon and the brick at the very right is the banquet area of the RC.
hope this helps...
btw, I don't really try to defend Clayton, I just tell it how I see it.
This project would cover the empy space boardered by RCD to the south and east, Forsyth to the north and the Crescent and S. Lyle drive to the west.
The rendering I posted shows the view looking north east up RCD. The tall building in the back ground must be Triannon and the brick at the very right is the banquet area of the RC.
hope this helps...
btw, I don't really try to defend Clayton, I just tell it how I see it.
SMSPlanstu wrote:Why so many naysayers?
With a metropolis of 2.8 million we can afford to have multiple high rent districts and hopefully revived ones too. The nature of St. Louis's economic concentration is the central corridor and historically the riverfront. Clayton is in the central corridor and preserves a degree of centralization for the core of St. Louis County. The greater the economic concentration in Clayton the greater the attraction of the inner ring suburbs with accessibility to it. Example: Bel-Nor is just a scenic drive up four-lane wide Hanley from Clayton or 5 miles from inside the city/subdivision. Berkley is eight miles. Brentwood is three miles or less.
The potential of most of these suburbs remains untapped especially to the north of Olive Blvd where well-built and 1910s-1930s historic homes remain in good condition.
The revival of the inner suburbs and transformation into a dense part of the region's urban core is possible due to proximity to the growing economic concentration in Clayton as well as the rapid regrowth in Downtown and CWE.
Therefore, the Carondelet Village is another step to a greater recentalized core.
don't forget metro link importance! Good post
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Clayton takes a step toward tax break for developer
By Margaret Gillerman
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
09/12/2007
Clayton — The Board of Aldermen set up the city's first tax-increment financing commission Tuesday night after a developer told a large gathering of Clayton residents and officials that a proposed major development — the $116 million Carondelet Village — could help rebuild the city's retail tax base.
Developer Mark Mehlman and architect Tyler Stephens detailed plans for a pedestrian "village" that would feature shops, restaurants, a movie theater, offices, an upscale 120-150 room hotel, parking and plaza areas. The development would be on about two acres immediately east of the Crescent luxury condominiums and Lyle Avenue, south of Forsyth Boulevard and north of the Ritz-Carlton.
City Manager Michael Schoedel said it is the largest retail project to be proposed for the city since the 1950s.
Mayor Linda Goldstein said that the establishment of the commission did not mean the city had decided to grant a TIF.
"We are setting up a TIF Commission in the event we decide to go down that path," she said.
Unlike the now-scrapped Centene Plaza proposal, which would have involved new corporate headquarters for Centene as well as shops and other offices, the Carondelet Village project would not require the use of eminent domain to acquire property. That proved so controversial for Centene that a lawsuit was filed, which Centene lost, and eventually led to Centene's decision not to build its expansion project in Clayton.
The Carondelet Village plan and its possible public-private financing was presented at special meeting of the board with a few dozen invited trustees of Clayton subdivisions. Additional public meetings in the wards are planned for Sept. 19, 20 and 24.
Although financing details are still being discussed, Mehlman has said the company would seek about $20 million in government incentives and assistance. Another estimated $96 million would come from private sources.
The city took the first steps toward setting up the TIF Commission , which would review any TIF proposals in the city, but did not make any appointments Tuesday.
Goldstein said she would begin tomorrow to contact residents who had been recommended. Other TIF members will be named by other taxing jurisdictions, including the school district.
The city also approved an agreement for Mehlman to reimburse the city for professional services the city will use to evaluate the project.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/s ... enDocument
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Now that's what I call a rendering! I can finally make sense of all these projects. Thanks for the post.
- 11K
^^ Sweet - though I wish the funky old bank on Forsyth could be moved/incorporated somehow.
[edit] The two buildings closest to Forsyth with the Triannon are planned to be additional condos with retail/restaurant at street level. The model shows street parking on Forsyth as well - nice work.[/edit]
[edit] The two buildings closest to Forsyth with the Triannon are planned to be additional condos with retail/restaurant at street level. The model shows street parking on Forsyth as well - nice work.[/edit]
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CK03- thanks for posting that map- it makes it easier to visualize how all these puzzle pieces are going to fit.
That part of Clayton is really starting to come together nicely!
That part of Clayton is really starting to come together nicely!
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I know Grove. I cant believe those few quirky little buildings are still there, but its only a matter of time I guess...
On a side note, I think it is not unlikely that, since WashU just bought the old CBC campus, University College and the Lifelong Learning Institute will move over there and WashU will sell the old Famous building and garage to a developer. The large, virtually unnused parking lot next to it too... I know these points have been made before, but I think the CBC thing will put that in motion eventually.
On a side note, I think it is not unlikely that, since WashU just bought the old CBC campus, University College and the Lifelong Learning Institute will move over there and WashU will sell the old Famous building and garage to a developer. The large, virtually unnused parking lot next to it too... I know these points have been made before, but I think the CBC thing will put that in motion eventually.
- 11K
^ Currently the old Famous building houses about 400 employees, everything from database management to alumni and development. I believe the longterm plan is to have these people on campus somewhere - good idea IMO. Maybe then they would consider selling - we'll see. I don't think the CBC purchase has much to do with this property - that is, it's certainly not a place they would move those currently located on Forsyth.
^ While the old CBC addition may make such a move possible, I don't see how such a move is an advantageous one. Old CBC might be slightly closer, but the old Famous location makes an excellent satellite facility due to the proximity of Metrolink to connect with the main campus.
BTW, any development that resulted in the destruction of the old Famous building itself would be a major loss. Redevelopment of the parking lot and garage would be nice with residential, combined with something like a Bloomingdales in the old Famous Building.
BTW, any development that resulted in the destruction of the old Famous building itself would be a major loss. Redevelopment of the parking lot and garage would be nice with residential, combined with something like a Bloomingdales in the old Famous Building.
This emphasis on first floor retail/dining near Metrolink reminds me of how they transformed Bethesda with similar development near Metro stations.
Why do I find myself wishing that we could pick up everything existing and proposed between Forest Park Pkwy., Hanley and Forsyth (minus the crap along the east side of Hanley), and then drop it on Ballpark Village?!? I have a feeling that this triangle is going to be everything we urbanistas hoped Ballpark Village would be, but won't be.
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clayton FINALLY updates their website... it only took 10 months...
updates 8/8/07 meeting minutes
click here
and 9/5/07 meeting minutes
click here
updates 8/8/07 meeting minutes
click here
and 9/5/07 meeting minutes
click here
Manlin-Mehlman submitted their RFP Response to the City of Clayton on October 17th, 2007. Included were renderings. Check out the PDF for more details about their proposal.
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- 11K
This and the Triannon condos will be fun to watch going up. I'll be sure to snap some pics when there's some dirt being moved.
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Clayton TIF commision approves first project
By Margaret Gillerman
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
12/04/2007
Clayton’s Tax-Increment Financing Commission voted Monday to recommend that the city give assistance to the Carondelet Village development.
The tax increment financing, the first in the city’s history, would assist the largest commercial development in Clayton in about 50 years.
The aldermen will consider the financing later this month. The commission voted 9-2 after a public hearing where residents hailed the development and developer Mark Mehlman’s previous Clayton projects as a boon for the city.
The Clayton School District, however, opposed the financing. Its two members on the commission voted no.
Steve Singer, school board president and a member of the commission, said the board understood the importance of the development, but wanted all property taxing districts to receive immediately a share of the benefits.
Mehlman wants $24 million in governmental assistance for the $128 million project. Tax increment financing would account for $21.1 million of the assistance and $2.9 million would come through either a transportation development district or community improvement district. The financing would retire bonds for the project in about 16 years.READ MORE HERE
By Margaret Gillerman
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
12/04/2007
Clayton’s Tax-Increment Financing Commission voted Monday to recommend that the city give assistance to the Carondelet Village development.
The tax increment financing, the first in the city’s history, would assist the largest commercial development in Clayton in about 50 years.
The aldermen will consider the financing later this month. The commission voted 9-2 after a public hearing where residents hailed the development and developer Mark Mehlman’s previous Clayton projects as a boon for the city.
The Clayton School District, however, opposed the financing. Its two members on the commission voted no.
Steve Singer, school board president and a member of the commission, said the board understood the importance of the development, but wanted all property taxing districts to receive immediately a share of the benefits.
Mehlman wants $24 million in governmental assistance for the $128 million project. Tax increment financing would account for $21.1 million of the assistance and $2.9 million would come through either a transportation development district or community improvement district. The financing would retire bonds for the project in about 16 years.READ MORE HERE
TIFs in Clayton. If anyone needed evidence that TIF is totally out of control in the metro area, now you have it.
^I don't know....
That Clayton Hole area is worthy of a TIF, I think. It was empty for years. Not to make excuses, but there's been developers (THF, Mehlmann) that have dived in (so to speak) to redevelop the rest of the hole, and we don't even know the status of Orchard's Trianon project. It may not happen like so many others planned for that area.
Without assistance, banks are now likely scrutinizing these projects more due to the state of the economy.
Clayton has never used it, so $24-million in assistance I don't think is that bad. The assistance is for downtown, not the ritzy/high-value residential areas.
That Clayton Hole area is worthy of a TIF, I think. It was empty for years. Not to make excuses, but there's been developers (THF, Mehlmann) that have dived in (so to speak) to redevelop the rest of the hole, and we don't even know the status of Orchard's Trianon project. It may not happen like so many others planned for that area.
Without assistance, banks are now likely scrutinizing these projects more due to the state of the economy.
Clayton has never used it, so $24-million in assistance I don't think is that bad. The assistance is for downtown, not the ritzy/high-value residential areas.