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PostDec 28, 2010#51

Per the P-D, the archeological excavation afforded by the new river bridge is uncovering loads of new information:

Dig near East St. Louis points to widespread fire
EAST ST. LOUIS • Archaeologists who have found the remains of a prehistoric city beneath present-day East St. Louis have also uncovered a mystery: Why did Native Americans abandon the city of 3,000 or more people around the year 1200?

A much larger settlement to the east — at Cahokia Mounds, center of the Mississippian culture — would survive 200 more years, experts say, before it also ended abruptly and inexplicably.

One thing is clear from the archaeological work begun in 2008 ahead of the construction of a new Mississippi River bridge — the East St. Louis settlement was ravaged by fire in the late 1100s.

"We see evidence of a widespread fire around 1175," said Joe Galloy, coordinator at the Illinois State Archaeological Survey's American Bottom Field Station in Wood River.
Full story at the link.

-RBB

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PostDec 28, 2010#52

I’ve read about this area on my own for years. I’ve also lived in Mexico while I was in college, and I have a reasonably capable understanding of archaeology (although a bit rusty). Taking what I’ve learned, and from other researchers I’ve read about, I look at it simply as:

They’re not just mounds; they’re full-fledged pyramids. Cahokia’s mounds are pyramids as genuine as those of Gaza and Teotihuacan.

Think about it… there are only a few places on Earth that have full pyramids, those being (1) Mezoamerica, (2) Egypt, (3) northern Sudan, and (4) Cahokia. Both China and Peru each have one pyramid, but they’re isolated sites, not as the others are for incorporating the structures into their cities. All these sites are well-protected and researched, but with Cahokia amounting for the least amount of protection or research. The Third World is kicking our butts for historical and cultural preservation.

Not just mounds of dirt like you’re digging a hole – they’re Pyramids.

The opportunity to draw people in to Southern Illinois to see the “American Pyramids” is incredible. Today, I don’t see it happening. Hell, how many people in StL have actually been to Cahokia? Just across the river? (Could it be in much worse a neighborhood?)

Talk about a gold mine for bringing in tourists. If given the means, the whole of the Near East Side would prosper, from tourism alone. As travelers around the world travel to Mexico to see Teotihuacan, Chicken Itza, Monte Alban, Tulum, Palenque, and the remains of Tenochtitlan, I’m sure many of them would be interested in learning of the equivalent scale Indian nation within the US & their ruins.

Imagine: prosperity coming into East StL from across the country, as well as international archaeological acclaim. All these small cities need to do is protect this site. But, I’m not hopeful for any of that happening, especially as East StL is in the process of laying off their police for lack of funds.

What should be on the IL side of the Arch Expansion?
A: Recognition of the American Indians who built their cities on that exact riverbank.

Why has Cahokia Mounds been allowed to be exploited as it has been? The horrible state of this site really does tell a lot about how little Springfield IL thinks about Southern IL. Cahokia could potentially be one of the most significant tourist and education sites in all of the US, truly competing with Mount Rushmore or Hoover Dam or even the Gateway Arch for visitors & cultural significance, but they ignore it as they ignore East StL and the now endemic poverty within & adjacent to it. While the IL state money flows north to Chicago, they’re deliberately choked off for Southern IL, being directly across the river from StL. In effect, they’re promoting one major city (their own) while bringing down the other, depriving StL of anything resembling a metro area across the river.

This site needs Federal protection, because it’s obvious IL doesn’t care for it. And hopefully, federal cash. Seriously, there probably is no better site for economic development stimulus funds in the country, with the potential for such economic turnaround from endemic poverty, and nothing near the historical opportunities from within.

Q: Are there any serious campaigns to turn this into a national park? I haven’t heard of them yet, but I’d be quite interested in hearing of any coming up. Could political pressure for this site be built up by other Indian Nations within the US?

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PostDec 28, 2010#53

I really appreciate all the passion for Cahokia Mounds and would suggest to all that you consider membership in the nonprofit Museum Society if you are able. In addition to spreading awareness, one of the main functions of the society is to buy adjacent properties in order to expand park boundaries and preserve more mounds.

http://www.cahokiamounds.org/

Gone Corporate, I would say that Illinois doesn't care for it is a stretch... the same statement can be said of Missourians and our extreme lack of respect and vision for the Confluence. I mean its the third largest confluence in the world and a major ecosystem and flyway and our vision from elected officials is to put freaking casinos on it, I mean What? But god bless Charlie Dooley!

I do believe though the region is becoming more aware of our underappreciated assets such as Cahokia and it now is the time for the region to produce a vision for establishing ourselves as a world-renowned heritage tourism destination. Small things like the mention in today's Post-Dispatch about the Illinois National Road Assoc. featuring Cahokia and other Metro-East attractions on an enhanced marketing effort for the byway help, but we have the cultural and historic assets to really be big time.

And I'd love to see the "Bird Man" become more ubiquitous in the region, for example on I-70 infrastructure and regional marketing materials... it is a classic.

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PostDec 28, 2010#54

Somebody put the site in for a Pepsi Refresh grant to fund better facilities and a preservation plan many months back, but I don't believe it ever got any votes. :(

National Park status aside, I'd love to see the ZMD supported by the whole region. Would St. Louis City and County break off part of their tax for the zoo and devote it to an archeology museum in Illinois provided St. Clair County approved a tax for the zoo, mobot, SLAM, MoHM, and SciCtr?

The site needs programming, and other than a few pow-wows and yoga events, I've never heard of anything there. The mounds heritage trail could add some drop-in visits, but tourists will still be few and far between until there's a landmark attraction of some sort. The interpretive center is kind of a sleepy thing.

How would you suggest building a tourism industry around it? Can a tourist coming into town by Amtrak even get out there if they wanted?

I wrote a while back on my blog about my visit to Yogjakarta in Indonesia, which is a small city set directly between two amazing UNESCO sites, a large volcano, and the sea. It's a major tourist town filled with wonderful guest houses, organized trips, and some decent restaurants. Why can't Washington Park be like that? There are two MetroLink stations semi-close to the mounds site, and to the best of my knowledge no guesthouses or signs for tourists to follow. It's a thirty minute bike ride from either station. There ought to be tours daily by bike, Segway, mini-bus, and whatever else we can imagine.

Both UNESCO sites, and the volcano for that matter, near Yogjakarta are taken seriously by the locals and everyone insists that they be visited in the dark before sunrise. Who on this forum has ever seen a sunrise from the top of Monk's Mound? Is it even legal to do so? New Years is coming and what better place is there to greet the dawn of 2011?

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PostDec 28, 2010#55

DaronDierkes wrote: How would you suggest building a tourism industry around it? Can a tourist coming into town by Amtrak even get out there if they wanted?
Daron,
Building a tourism industry around Cahokia will require increased awareness by locals. For example, I cautioned an out-of-towner staying at a downtown hotel that while Cahokia was extremely accessible by car, it would be likely that a cabdriver would not know where in the hell to go. He later confirmed that this indeed was the case and did not make it out there.

One of the more promising immediate tourism angles though is to position it squarely into the comprehensive management plans of the two National Scenic Byways that run past it -- the National Road and Great River Road. Both of these byways apply for and typically receive federal grants every year and Cahokia Mounds should be a core feature of marketing and other projects.

Relatedly Alton CVB does a good job of marketing the Meeting of the Rivers National Scenic Byway, and whatever its equivalent is for the Collinsville area needs to do the same. In fact, if I were in Saint Clair Co. leadership I'd work to brand Cahokia Mounds as the symbol of the region. Put Bird Man everywhere! Pairing Alton's Piasa Bird with Cahokia Mounds' Bird Man would be pretty cool, too.

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PostDec 29, 2010#56

^You got it man. Those two counties and Calhoun with it's Center for American Archeology ought to work together to make the Metro-East (and SIUE) known for archeology. Bird Man and Piasa make obvious/great branding icons, especially if they're used together as part of a regional effort.

More on developing tourism,



If you go to Angkor Wat in Cambodia, you'll see an out of place helium balloon (cable-stayed, not a hot air balloon) looming over the forest. It's a pretty great business. I think the guys operating it run at pretty full capacity most of the time. Not sure how much it'd cost to install one in the Washington Park area, but obviously if one did go up in such a balloon, Monk's Mound wouldn't be the only monument worth looking at (downtown). It'd certainly generate a lot of facebook pictures... Perhaps some interesting weddings too... Follow this link to a basic overview with pictures

Or maybe just building an observation tower similar to the one near the confluence would be more tasteful.

PostDec 29, 2010#57

The St. Louis Convention & Visitors Commission (CVC) is the sales and marketing organization responsible for selling St. Louis City and St. Louis County as a convention and meeting site and as a leisure travel destination.
Is there any agency out there that sells the entire St. Louis region? I had no idea that the CVC had a limited scope. Explore St. Louis lists Cahokia Mounds as the number 8 thing to do when visiting, but doesn't seem to have a dedicated page for it. :roll:

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PostDec 29, 2010#58

I have no doubt that the Cahokia Mounds have great historical significance...and should be a destination of learning and remembering...There are Indian Mounds down in middle Georgia in the heart of the old Creek Nation that I used to visit as a kid...They are interesting...

But, is it just me or are the Native American mounds not nearly as 'how did they do that?' awe inspiring, architecturally significant or asthetically appealing as the Great Pyramids in Egypt or the Mayan Pyramids in Mexico?

In addition to societal racism, I wonder if this reality is not also a reason for the current state of the Cahokia site...

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PostDec 29, 2010#59

RobbyD wrote:I have no doubt that the Cahokia Mounds have great historical significance...and should be a destination of learning and remembering...There are Indian Mounds down in middle Georgia in the heart of the old Creek Nation that I used to visit as a kid...They are interesting...

But, is it just me or are the Native American mounds not nearly as 'how did they do that?' awe inspiring, architecturally significant or asthetically appealing as the Great Pyramids in Egypt or the Mayan Pyramids in Mexico?

In addition to societal racism, I wonder if this reality is not also a reason for the current state of the Cahokia site...
^This (except for the "societal racism" thing. I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean).

The problem with Cahokia Mounds is, quite frankly, there's nothing there. One 1 big grassy hill and a couple smaller grassy mounds. That's it.

Most people, as said above, want to see something that man built and wonder "how the heck did they do that?", or something like the Grand Canyon and stand in awe of the power of nature to create something like that over hundreds of millions of years (or 6,000 years, if you're a YECtard). I can't imagine many people driving halfway across the country to see a hill covered in grass.

A lot of Civil War battlefields are like this - there's a limited number of people who want to go see....a field. The only thing that could make CM more marketable and popular would be if they would rebuilt the stockade fence(s) and some of the structures within, as has been discussed at various times over the years. Given the budget woes of both the State and Federal government, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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PostDec 29, 2010#60

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:^This (except for the "societal racism" thing. I'm not even sure what that is supposed to mean).
There are probably many factors that have created the neglected Cahokia Mounds site. I'm no history scholar, but I would imagine the industrial nature of the area, the aforementioned 'its just mounds of dirt' view by some and the lack of political will to perserve or promote in a serious way (meaning lots of dollars) any legacy of a minority group (prior to more recent history).

We surely need not go into the treatment of Native Americans and the historic negative attitudes many citizens (not all) have had towards them. I'm not interested in blaming or victimizing. But this history is clear and tragic. And had real consequences. Thankfully, I believe today the legacy of these ancient tribes is viewed differently and their ancestors treated with the widespread respect they clearly deserve. Maybe this change of public and political attitudes will lead to better things for the CM's.

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PostDec 29, 2010#61

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:
The problem with Cahokia Mounds is, quite frankly, there's nothing there. One 1 big grassy hill and a couple smaller grassy mounds. That's it.
There's not much, that I recall, at Kitty Hawk either. In fact, they even grassed over the dunes to keep the dunes from doing what dunes do so it doesn't even look the same.

As you mentioned, doing some rebuilding of structures would be vital to increasing the site's appeal as would a really great modern museum. Anyway, nobody expects such a site to be in the top 5 most visited US historical sites.

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PostDec 29, 2010#62

lukethedrifter wrote: they even grassed over the dunes to keep the dunes from doing what dunes do
:lol: Sounds like a long lost Minutemen lyric.

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PostDec 30, 2010#63

If the mounds were a lot taller and made from giant blocks of granite with hidden passageways, people would be all over it. But, like the great ancient artifacts builders of the Tigris-Euphrates, the Cahokia Indians assumed dirt structures would last as far into the future as they could imagine.

It could be worse. They could discover an ancient calendar that shows the Earth will end in 2012, which wouldn't attract anyone in 2013 and beyond. Maybe they can find an ancient casino run by native americans to bring that concept full circle.

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PostDec 30, 2010#64

The National Geographic story is now available online: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/ ... odges-text

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PostDec 30, 2010#65

So it sounds like people think Cahokia Mounds needs to be better integrated into existing local tourism and funding mechanisms (ZMD, CVC, etc) and to have its offerings expanded (e.g., rebuild stockade fence, more programming, expanded museum). Is there any sort of master plan for Cahokia? What are the goals for the site? Who would even produce a plan--Cahokia Mounds park board, some Illinois Park Department, East-West Gateway, etc? With budget woes as they are, any sort of expansion will need a lot of private philanthropy, and I bet a master plan with a specific wish list could get some wallets to open. How much would it cost to rebuilt parts of the fence? The whole fence? How much to buy a specific parcel of land? How much to support programming, and what kinds? How much to tie in a bike path from the MetroLink or to the riverfront? Put a number next to it and ask for donations towards that specific goal.

On a similar note, is anyone aware of the Osage Nation's plans for Sugarloaf Mound?

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PostDec 30, 2010#66

^sounded like the Osage Nation was split on whether they should be spending money in far-off St. Louis. They were involved in the SOM team's proposal for the arch grounds, and as far as I know the Mounds Heritage Trail is on everyone's books as a plan for the future. Elsewhere on this forum a gentleman from the Landmarks Association asserted that they were watching over the mound, and that an interpretive center might one day follow adjacent to the mound, but not on top of it. Can anybody clarify that?

Hopefully the Osage won't be the only one's footing the bill. It fits into GRG's Mississippi Greenway plan, and Metro just got a million-dollar grant for the Soulard part of the trail. It'd be cool if AB Inbev took a interest too...

Successfully anchoring the Missouri side of a local heritage trail could help open conversations about the CVC in the Metro-East and how the UNESCO site should fit into our regional plans.

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PostDec 30, 2010#67

Daron - just wanted to say that I always enjoy reading your comments even though they're always well thought out, balanced and sensical.

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PostDec 31, 2010#68

^"Even though... sensical." :? hmmmm, you used a collocation of contrast followed by the second half of nonsensical when you might have been intending sensible. :( Alex, I detect mixed admiration in that statement. :D Thanks!

PostDec 31, 2010#69

Here's the thread with commentary from Landmarks,
http://urbanstl.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... ge#p174759

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PostJan 10, 2011#70

An article from the P-D noting an uptick in tourist interest after the National Geographic article.

Maybe this is an indication that more sustained promotion of Cahokia Mounds could produce a significant increase in tourism?

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PostJan 11, 2011#71

Cahokia Mounds has been improving a lot, and those promoting it are really pushing for a better, and more well kwnown, image.

PostJan 11, 2011#72

From Early last year:

http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/2 ... found.html
CAHOKIA MOUNDS -- COPPER WORKSHOP FOUND

I'm the co-author with Professor Tim Pauketat in a Oxford University Press volume called "Cahokia Mounds" so I was delighted to find the following:

About 800 years ago, in a large room lit by a wood fire, fierce-looking men bedecked in bright feathers and polished copper ornaments gathered to smoke and talk. Their intricate jewelry -- fanciful objects hammered from chunks of naturally occurring raw copper -- reflected the firelight. A variety of these ancient Mississippian-era copper decorations have turned up throughout Illinois and the Southeast United States, including triangular, 8-inch long-earrings embossed at the ends with a human face, headdress ornaments depicting stylized birds, even diminutive but carefully crafted copper ovals that may have been applied to a ritualistic leather belt or cape. When they are unearthed, these antiquities are covered with a green or gray patina.

Today, traffic on Collinsville (Illinois) passes a short distance from the collection of over more than 80 mounds where, archaeologists say, this American Stone Age scene is thought to have regularly occurred.

But there is something unique about a particular excavated area beside a rather plain looking mound -- Mound 34 -- that lies about 200 yards east of the world famous and huge Monk's Mound at Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site. The carefully sifted soil at this excavation has revealed evidence of the only known copper workshop from the Mississippian-era, a culture that peaked about 1250 A.D. throughout the middle and southern portions of America. The overall Illinois state site was the location of a large, prehistoric city of perhaps 20,000 that archaeologists call Cahokia.

"It's the only one (copper workshop) that's been discovered," said James A. Brown, professor of archaeology at Northwestern University in Chicago.

Brown and his research partner John Kelly, a lecturer in archaeology at Washington University in St. Louis, have for eight years led an investigation into finding the workshop and then carefully excavating the often minute particles and bits of copper that were left behind. Brown said that the copper workshop was purely for religious purposes, to produce ornaments for those who participated in significant ceremonies that probably occurred atop the mounds. "They are all depictions of other worldly beings," he said of the symbols and figures found in copper as well as on pieces of pottery and decorated shells.

The irony is that a self-taught archaeologist, Greg Perino, who grew up in Belleville and pioneered a sometimes heavy handed excavation style that featured bulldozing, actually discovered the copper workshop and another nearby nearly 60 years ago. Perino died in 2005 at age 91. However, his mapping was rudimentary and it took years to relocate his find. The rediscovery of the copper workshop has gained national attention. The National Geographic Society is helping to fund the research.

The overall purpose of most excavations at the mounds site, according to Kelly and Brown, is to determine the true role of Cahokia in the Southeast Ceremonial Complex, the string of ancient cities and mounds that stretched from Wisconsin through Illinois and on into Kentucky, Arkansas, Louisiana, Alabama and Georgia.

And in turn, the workshop and the shell cup fragments hint that Cahokia may have been the center and not just an outlying fringe of the ancient Mississippian culture. The true role of Cahokia undoubtedly still lies buried. Unlike many other Mississippian sites that have been heavily excavated, less than 1 percent of the mounds site has been dug. While many artifacts have turned up, scientists working the site say what is left buried may greatly change current views of the civilization, and reinforce the theory that Cahokia may have been the center of it all.

Contact reporter George Pawlaczyk at gpawlaczyk@bnd.com or 239-2625.

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PostApr 04, 2011#73

The latest issue of american archeology, a pubication of The Archeological Conservancy, has a fascinating feature article on the remarkable significance of the digs at the East Saint Louis Mounds Group that are being conducted as part of The New Mississippi River Bridge project. They estimate that the group constituted a city in its own right with about a population of about 3,000 people.

Link to brief excerpt here: http://www.americanarchaeology.com/aatoc.html

The new bridge really should be named Mounds Bridge or similar

PostApr 04, 2011#74

xing wrote:Cahokia Mounds has been improving a lot, and those promoting it are really pushing for a better, and more well kwnown, image.
I agree. Yes, it would be nice for it to be a National Park, but there are hard-working staff and volunteers continually improving both awareness and phsyical improvement of the state park. Also, a Mounds Heritage Trail is in the works to create a multimodal trail from Cakohia Mounds to East Saint Louis over the Eads on down to Sugar Loaf Mound (and also a spur to the N. Riverfront to the site of the leveled Big Mound, which the New Bridge will abut.

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PostApr 04, 2011#75

^ I guess it would a dedicated citizen group, and a few decades, to take up the cause of making it a National Park?

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