No mention of the Convention Center Expansion (not sure whether that would help or hurt such a district) and no mention of N-S MetroLink, even on an optimistic note?
^ yeah this sounds like it’s going to be bigger than just Square (which is already a big deal).
This innovation district thing could be good for Downtown. Attract companies graduating from spaces like T-Rex and Cortex and bring them to this area. The Business Journal article includes this sentence which I think is odd...
But as I said, companies graduating from the smaller space in Cortex and T-Rex, among other places, can move into a new state of the art space when built out. I'll be waiting for NOW Innovation District's future plans to be announced after Square moves in.
The anchor is Square at this point. Twitter could come in as well. The NOW (North of Washington) Innovation District would benefit if Metro decides to move the North-South MetroLink alignment down Delmar to Tucker and then run down Tucker. While the Business Journal talks as if this is a pie in the sky idea, I say the innovation district will most likely happen. Square is a huge win, their future expansion is another win. Starlake owns numerous parking lots nearby, a filing is on hand with the state and local economic development members say that it is in talks. I'm not expecting highrises but some low rise buildings will really improve this entrance into Downtown.Details like the district's boundaries, what anchors would be included and the name of the district are still being determined.
But as I said, companies graduating from the smaller space in Cortex and T-Rex, among other places, can move into a new state of the art space when built out. I'll be waiting for NOW Innovation District's future plans to be announced after Square moves in.
^ Kinda curious in how this plays out with CORTEX as well as North 39. I think things get diluted at some point and a name for sake of naming doesn't really add as much.
What I'm hoping what happens in the near term after this announcement is that CORTEX finds taker for Square space relatively quick, Wexford breaks ground on their 10 story building/garage expansion and CORTEX K breaks ground. At same time; I believe Square, BuildaBear, and possible tenant building for ATT building will help push further mixed use residential downtown from RX, Jeff arms to Two Cardinal Way & maybe Cupples X. In other words, I don't think another competing innovative district in the near term is really that helpful at the moment and wonder how much demand.
What I'm hoping what happens in the near term after this announcement is that CORTEX finds taker for Square space relatively quick, Wexford breaks ground on their 10 story building/garage expansion and CORTEX K breaks ground. At same time; I believe Square, BuildaBear, and possible tenant building for ATT building will help push further mixed use residential downtown from RX, Jeff arms to Two Cardinal Way & maybe Cupples X. In other words, I don't think another competing innovative district in the near term is really that helpful at the moment and wonder how much demand.
There are 3 Innovation Districts in St. Louis. Life Science/BioTech/Corporate Innovation at Cortex, Ag Tech and Plant Sciences at 39 North and Software Tech/Geospatial in Downtown/NOW Innovation District that includes TREX. All 3 can survive and flourish. If you look at those 3 districts we have great human capital in town from the corporations that are already here.
I second the call for re-naming this thread. Maybe something simple like Square in St. Louis.
I think the question to this thread has been answered. I believe the answer is yes although I do not remember what we gave them. Probably state job tax credits?
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Very much, I agree. There are companies that are graduating from the incubator spaces that have needs for larger office space; the new offices being developed at Rock Spring School and Chroma Phase 2 demonstrate how these needs are in play and are beginning to be addressed. Should the new Square complex lead to further development, say on the surrounding empty parking lots, these graduating companies could assume this space. This would further McKelvey's real estate company's objectives while creating a better work environment for Square's employees - by creating a cluster of comparable businesses. Indeed, this could lead to proactive continued industry cluster generation while furthering the retention of local new companies as their needs for expansion come into being. An unstated goal for the region's massive incubation program is for graduating companies to not just stay in STL but to move into Downtown's existing offices or into newly developed buildings, whether historic rehabs or new construction. Developing a district around Square's new offices could very much fill this emerging need for expanded space. Potentially building a cluster in this new area could maintain a comparable work culture like what's come into being in Cortex already. I'd been anticipating potential new development of mid-sized office space in Downtown West in a couple years; the development of a Square-centric cluster could do this on its own and lead to further migration Downtown. And, by bringing in new companies towards their own, it could lead to bringing more software engineers into Downtown outside of just what Square is looking to build for themselves.chriss752 wrote: This innovation district thing could be good for Downtown. Attract companies graduating from spaces like T-Rex and Cortex and bring them to this area.
Mods: Let's change the title of this thread. Very much, they're worth what they've been given and are building up much more than that. Thanks
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Don't forget that McKelvey also owns LockerDome and co-founded LaunchCode. If he and Dorsey wanted to, they could easily turn this entire area into their own district. Add in a satellite Twitter office and we'd really be cooking.
Jim is a board member and minority owner of LockerDome. He is a co-founder and general partner in Cultivation Capital which has done a number of local investments in the STL region. He is also on the STL Fed board. His founding of LaunchCode may be his most impactful idea of them all.
I took that "what (other) anchors" comment to be a reference to NGA West. The Pruitt-Igoe site south of the NGA West campus is only about 3/4 of a mile NW of the P-D building. Granted, there is not a lot of technological overlap between Square and geospatial intelligence, but there are certainly other companies out there that might be attracted to an innovation district with two anchors like that, say Google, for example?chriss752 wrote: This innovation district thing could be good for Downtown. Attract companies graduating from spaces like T-Rex and Cortex and bring them to this area. The Business Journal article includes this sentence which I think is odd...The anchor is Square at this point. Twitter could come in as well. The NOW (North of Washington) Innovation District would benefit if Metro decides to move the North-South MetroLink alignment down Delmar to Tucker and then run down Tucker.Details like the district's boundaries, what anchors would be included and the name of the district are still being determined.
I put together a parcel ownership map of the area, mostly because I was curious about which properties are already owned by StarLake Holdings LLC (aka: 900 N. Tucker Bldg LLC). I highlighted some of the other property owners in the vicinity as well.
Definitely looks like Star Lake has something big in mind.
BTW, not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any way that old rail tunnel under this area could be incorporated into the future district? Any potential uses for it?
BTW, not sure if this has been discussed, but is there any way that old rail tunnel under this area could be incorporated into the future district? Any potential uses for it?
^ To your last question, that would be a no. When the city tore up Tucker to rebuild it they filled in the tunnel with massive foam blocks and then tons of dirt. Long story short, the basement walls of the buildings (primarily the Illinois Central Terminal (the eventual final home to the Globe-Democrat), the original Globe Building (the current PD building) and the Star-Times' old building (currently the St. Patrick's Center) would have been in danger of collapsing into their basements since the walls of those buildings were not built to withstand that much pressure from the dirt. So massive foam blocks the size of compact cars were used and then those were encased in dirt, and the new Tucker was laid on top of that.
Here is a bit of background:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... f7340.html
https://stlexplorer.wordpress.com/2009/ ... in-tunnel/
Here is a bit of background:
https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... f7340.html
https://stlexplorer.wordpress.com/2009/ ... in-tunnel/
Thanks Tim for adding the map and context.
I believe some of those LCRA properties next to convention center will be slated for expansion if not mistaken. However, not quite sure of expansion foot print
I believe some of those LCRA properties next to convention center will be slated for expansion if not mistaken. However, not quite sure of expansion foot print
Meanwhile, Urban Forest has just completed a new mural on the front of their building at 1335 Convention Plaza:
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STL Biz Journal: 'There's a hunger for it': Why McKelvey's StarLake wants to reshape downtown beyond just Square
* Note: Paywall.
This announcement follow's the incorporation of "NOW Innovation District" by StarLake partner John Berglund last April.
"NOW" means "North of Washington".
Their eyes are on a build-out of the area with a 15-year time horizon for its completion.
Long story very short: It's indeed going to be a new clustered district beyond just Square. And this is awesome news.
* Note: Paywall.
This announcement follow's the incorporation of "NOW Innovation District" by StarLake partner John Berglund last April.
"NOW" means "North of Washington".
Their eyes are on a build-out of the area with a 15-year time horizon for its completion.
Long story very short: It's indeed going to be a new clustered district beyond just Square. And this is awesome news.
All of this is great news, I just hope that growth becomes a bit more endogenous and the development does not become too reliant on a single person.
This is extremely exciting. Can't wait to see more, and Trivers does really good work too.gone corporate wrote: STL Biz Journal: 'There's a hunger for it': Why McKelvey's StarLake wants to reshape downtown beyond just Square
* Note: Paywall.
This announcement follow's the incorporation of "NOW Innovation District" by StarLake partner John Berglund last April.
"NOW" means "North of Washington".
Their eyes are on a build-out of the area with a 15-year time horizon for its completion.
Long story very short: It's indeed going to be a new clustered district beyond just Square. And this is awesome news.
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What level of urbanity should we expect from this project/district?
I have this nightmarish feeling that it's going to feel a little suburban office park-like, but those are probably unfounded fears.
I have this nightmarish feeling that it's going to feel a little suburban office park-like, but those are probably unfounded fears.
^ I don't think we should get too far down the what to expect rabbit hole until we see at the very least a site plan. This is only the beginning.
I doubt very much it will be in the form of an suburban office park though. Some levy complaints like that at Cortex (which to be fair is a lower density then some of us would prefer) but I would say some Cortex style buildings (like the Sandcrawler, Microsoft, or BJC buildings) built with appropriate urban setbacks and massing would work very well right here.
While this is total speculation, I do think this investment makes a Twitter office more likely.
I doubt very much it will be in the form of an suburban office park though. Some levy complaints like that at Cortex (which to be fair is a lower density then some of us would prefer) but I would say some Cortex style buildings (like the Sandcrawler, Microsoft, or BJC buildings) built with appropriate urban setbacks and massing would work very well right here.
While this is total speculation, I do think this investment makes a Twitter office more likely.
I'm definitely not getting my hopes up yet. Most of the land that StarLake owns is obviously going to be used for employee parking. It would be nice if they could strike a deal with the garage behind the building but again, I'm not feeling great about it. Unfortunately they'll probably put quite a few parking spaces inside the old P-D building as well.KansasCitian wrote: What level of urbanity should we expect from this project/district?
I have this nightmarish feeling that it's going to feel a little suburban office park-like, but those are probably unfounded fears.
Also, this area is far from a blank slate. The downtown core would be more flexible than this. You've got the Convention Center expansion to deal with, one remaining parking lot west of that, and a mess of suburban style single user buildings north of that. The only great buildable land is separated by downtown's continental divide (Tucker). Plus this area is iffy on public safety to begin with and includes the region's capital of homeless services.
The best thing that could happen would be for them to acquire the entire block between 11th/10th/Lucas/Convention and propose a rather unfortunate but necessary parking garage with offices on top. It would also be nice if they could quickly establish a strong relationship with the Globe Building.
^ Parking is all that exists there now, so it makes sense that they would use it as such until demand can be created for additional buildings. No sense in paying to rent part of the Board of Education garage when there is plenty of surface parking nearby in the near term.
Also not sure how the Convention Center expansion makes things inflexible. My guess would be the district would be centered more around the PD building and all the empty lots across Tucker...that Starlake already owns, not the area backing up against the convention center (I think the CVC has plans for a garage or potential office building on that block you speak of once the expansion is done anyway). Tucker isn't near as wide in this area as it is further south. Some pedestrian enhancements like bump outs, extended crossing times, etc could could help mitigate that "continental divide" you speak of.
Either way, my hopes are up. This is a dead and desolate part of the city and finally some hugely successful guys with some chops (and the cash to back it up) want to do something with it. Nothing wrong with a little optimism. It couldn't possibly get any worse than it is now lol.
Also not sure how the Convention Center expansion makes things inflexible. My guess would be the district would be centered more around the PD building and all the empty lots across Tucker...that Starlake already owns, not the area backing up against the convention center (I think the CVC has plans for a garage or potential office building on that block you speak of once the expansion is done anyway). Tucker isn't near as wide in this area as it is further south. Some pedestrian enhancements like bump outs, extended crossing times, etc could could help mitigate that "continental divide" you speak of.
Either way, my hopes are up. This is a dead and desolate part of the city and finally some hugely successful guys with some chops (and the cash to back it up) want to do something with it. Nothing wrong with a little optimism. It couldn't possibly get any worse than it is now lol.
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Would it be possible to build a garage on Interco Plaza, or was the area under it filled in with foam as well?
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This are desperately needs some street retail. The current situation feels incredibly unsafe after dark and most existing buildings are built like fortresses.
The new convention center plaza is intriguing, especially with thoughtful new construction to the west and a reconfiguration of the Holiday Inn. Maybe Interco Plaza could find some new life as well if the surrounding buildings decide to reconfigure a bit. The current situation there is almost comically bad from a planning standpoint.
The new convention center plaza is intriguing, especially with thoughtful new construction to the west and a reconfiguration of the Holiday Inn. Maybe Interco Plaza could find some new life as well if the surrounding buildings decide to reconfigure a bit. The current situation there is almost comically bad from a planning standpoint.