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PostJun 28, 2007#101

On the one hand, the Mayor says:
Paul has spoken in general terms of building new homes and schools, adding green space, attracting new businesses, and restoring historic properties.


But on the other hand, the Mayor says:
I don’t know in any detail what Paul has in mind for the properties he has acquired so far


So which is it, Mayor Slay? Do you know of a plan or not?



Somehow, I think the former quote is more spin, while the latter rings more true. Until McKee shares his plans, it's all just spin, spin, spin.

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PostJun 28, 2007#102

It's been proven that the so-called silver bullet large-scale development hasn't worked in the City. Does Union Station, Pruitt-Igoe, St. Louis Centre, St. Louis Marketplace, the Highlands office complex ring a bell? Most upcoming neighborhoods have seen a resurgence thanks to the little guy investing in one property at a time.


This is a short-sighted and incomplete view. Anytime someone claims that something has been 'proven', especially in real estate or urban development, don't believe them! The neighborhoods we now cite as being brought back one home at a time were initially huge projects build very quickly, and were/are successful. While some overzealous developers may try to claim that a single project will itself be transformative, I don't believe I've ever heard a developer use 'silver bullet' terminology.



While I think McKee should be held to account for maintaining his properties in North St. Louis, I think the Mayor's statement is nothing worse that the other side of the P-D story. What we know is that McKee's bought many properties and has let many rot and fall down. That's a real problem and it should be reported and rectified.

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PostJun 28, 2007#103

Yep, it's "little guys" like Jassen Johnson, Joe Edwards, Craig Heller, and Amy and Amrit Gill, who have been making a bigger impact in our City's renaissance than the "big guys" like Biondi, Schoemehl, Slay, Stogel and Danforth. It's no wonder then that urbanists celebrating the organic renaissance making the greater difference now fear a large-scale developer like Paul McKee.

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PostJun 28, 2007#104

^ I'd just add that there's good-big and small-bad developers out there. The Gills started very small, but putting $50M+ into a very small neighborhood is big.

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PostJun 28, 2007#105

The Gills are big, but I don't see them building vinyl homes with cul-de-sacs. So I welcome the Gills and I think many people would find them distinct from Paul McKee.



McKee isn't looking to rehab abandoned buildings. If he was he would be securing them, not allowing them to be dumping grounds or worse, or finally be completely destroyed by brick rustlers. The Gills did the Coronado and the Moolah. There is a big difference. St. Louis City needs to back people like the Gills and give a collective "no thanks" to Paul McKee.

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PostJun 28, 2007#106

^ Of course. The point is that we need good developers, not simply small developers.

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PostJun 28, 2007#107


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PostJun 29, 2007#108

Doug wrote:Let him invest his money elsewhere. The City does not need a messiah like Paul McKee. We might as well sign with the devil on the dotted line. The manner by which he does business is telling and clearly indicates he is not our friend.


That part of the city does need a messiah. Do you thin Paul McKee will make a dime off of that otherwise worthless property before he dies? Do you think there might be some risk in investing in North St. Louis? Apparently everyone else in the world does, or Mr. McKee would be outbid on the property he acquires. But he gets it for almost nothing because other investors think it is too risky and don't bid at all.



I hope he does have a plan to bring back the North side. And like the Mayor says, the city has the most to say about what will happen to the current residents. I don't think they will be cheated. If anything, the Mr. McKee has already raised the value of the remaining property. If he actually starts developing the area, the current property values still remaining could quadruple in value.

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PostJun 29, 2007#109

Gary Kreie wrote:


That part of the city does need a messiah. Do you thin Paul McKee will make a dime off of that otherwise worthless property before he dies? Do you think there might be some risk in investing in North St. Louis? Apparently everyone else in the world does, or Mr. McKee would be outbid on the property he acquires. But he gets it for almost nothing because other investors think it is too risky and don't bid at all.



I hope he does have a plan to bring back the North side. And like the Mayor says, the city has the most to say about what will happen to the current residents. I don't think they will be cheated. If anything, the Mr. McKee has already raised the value of the remaining property. If he actually starts developing the area, the current property values still remaining could quadruple in value.


While the northside has a lot of abandonment, there were 19k people (according to the 2000 census) living in the area "blairmont" is buying up... so there is a considerable amount of money already invested. If McKee wanted anything but a mini subdivision he'd wouldn't let the homes he bought fall down, and he wouldn't be strategically buying properties next to LRA land. He's a business man, not some altruistic real estate mogul looking to bring back the northside as it once was... it's going to be a sea of vinyl.



Also, most people don't invest here because it's easier to move to Wentzville. And since when has an increase in derelict building increased property values?... the more run down the neighborhood appears the cheaper the property.

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PostJun 29, 2007#110

BSH wrote:


While the northside has a lot of abandonment, there were 19k people (according to the 2000 census) living in the area "blairmont" is buying up... so there is a considerable amount of money already invested.


Overall, this is probably the poorest section in the entire region, except for maybe East St. Louis. So just because people are living there doesn't mean that they have the means to invest into the area. And I don't know exactly how big this area is, but for a city of 348,000 at the time, 19k doesn't sound like too many.



And despite the obvious reasons for concern, which should be addressed, I would still like to see the plans before passing judgement.

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PostJun 29, 2007#111

Gary Kreie wrote:That part of the city does need a messiah.


So we need someone to play the Son of God? No thanks. This is real life and real urban fabric here. What we need are concrete actions and plans, not righteous and abstract promises and posturing.


Gary Kreie wrote:Do you thin Paul McKee will make a dime off of that otherwise worthless property before he dies?


Yes. If the tax credit bill passes, he will make money before he even spends a dollar on development. And "otherwise worthless" sure discounts the fact that all city property is worth a lot more than it was five years ago due to incredible reinvestment in the city. These properties values were rising when McKee started buying them; he would not have bought land with lowering or stagnant value because he's not a fool.


Gary Kreie wrote:If anything, the Mr. McKee has already raised the value of the remaining property.


Actually, quite the contrary. His derelict holdings have lowered people's appraisals, creating bad comps for rehabbers who are nowhere near one of his holdings but happen to be in the same neighborhood. His refusal to respond to people's requests for rebuilding sewer laterals that go under his properties have endangered loans to rehab adjacent buildings. Most of his properties looked better BEFORE he purchased them. On some blocks, he killed momentum. On many blocks, there are one or two private owners with McKee and the city owning the rest of the block. Those private owners are not going to get much if they sell to anyone but McKee.



On the other hand, since McKee's companies pay over twice what every property is worth, I guess they have raised the values (and the tax credit refund) of the properties that they purchase. But that doesn't help people who want to sell to other buyers.

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PostJun 29, 2007#112

Shimmy wrote:
Overall, this is probably the poorest section in the entire region, except for maybe East St. Louis. So just because people are living there doesn't mean that they have the means to invest into the area. And I don't know exactly how big this area is, but for a city of 348,000 at the time, 19k doesn't sound like too many.



And despite the obvious reasons for concern, which should be addressed, I would still like to see the plans before passing judgement.


In the last five years, the city has issued building permits (over 50k in value only) in this area worth 171 million dollars. The area is certainly poor, but there has been a substantial amount of investment made already. To say that no one is interested is an gross underestimate.



Total Building permits inexcess of $50k



ONSL 2002 $5,463,836.00

2003 $3,870,571.00

2004 $1,386,900.00

2005 $13,616,968.00

2006 $2,392,300.00



$26,730,575.00



STL Place 2002 $15,281,003.00

2003 $827,000.00

2004 $6,367,778.00

2005 $8,190,327.00

2006 $1,618,991.00



$32,285,099.00



JVL 2002 $12,439,938.00

2003 $21,974,010.00

2004 $2,494,228.00

2005 $5,985,038.00

2006 $7,192,000.00



$50,085,214.00



Columbus Square

2002 $89,000.00

2003 $1,996,000.00

2004 $4,995,981.00

2005 $24,664,520.00

2006 $8,942,520.00



$40,688,021.00



Carr Square

2002 $237,630.00

2003 $72,000.00

2004 $8,185,534.00

2005 $1,075,927.00

2006 $60,000.00



$9,631,091.00



Hyde Park 2002 $2,881,930.00

2003 $1,231,720.00

2004 $639,500.00

2005 $2,562,596.00

2006 $4,951,000.00



$12,266,746.00



Total of above: $171,686,746.00

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PostJun 29, 2007#113

^ Exactly. It was especially troubling to see Charlie Brennan on Donnybrook last night. He said no one has invested in North St. Louis, thus Paul McKee should be given credit for doing so. He is grossly misinformed and doesn't know what he is talking about. Paul McKee isn't investing anything, rather allowing property to physically and economically depreciate.

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PostJun 29, 2007#114

OMG - you watch Donnybrook?!?! I can't imagine a less in-tune, more ho-hum St. Louis display of attitude than that show. No really, I watched it a couple times and it's so stale! It's as if no one of the show has read anything since 1981.

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PostJun 29, 2007#115

The investment being from developers(which, we have clarrified to be multiple), not from the residents which I understood BSH as implying.



Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems that a lot of people here don't want Paul McKee for the POSSIBILITY of putting up vinyl, suburban crap. Then, to justify why we don't need him they point to all the money and developments outside of McKee...many of which are vinyl and suburban. :?

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PostJun 29, 2007#116

Yes, you are correct, but we don't need more suburban and vinyl. Many larger projects on the north side happens to be, however we don't need more. What I take issue with is that people are saying that McKee is the first to invest on the North Side. While I don't like the majority of what others have built, I suppose they are grandfathered in. The point is we don't need anymore, especially in areas which are ripe with rehabs or have the potential for such. Those areas should have construction which preserves the architectural fabric of the surrounding area. If possible, tax incentives should be given to rehabbers and those who would build new infill that appropriate. Yet, in order to judge what is appropriate, design guidelines should be established that would prevent inappropriate suburban construction. By appropriate I mean sidewalks, proper set back, no snout houses, preservation of alleys, and finally homes shouldn't be 75 percent vinyl. Given that McKee is allowing his buildings to be rustled, I don't see how that is his intention.

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PostJun 30, 2007#117

Shimmy wrote:The investment being from developers(which, we have clarrified to be multiple), not from the residents which I understood BSH as implying.



Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems that a lot of people here don't want Paul McKee for the POSSIBILITY of putting up vinyl, suburban crap. Then, to justify why we don't need him they point to all the money and developments outside of McKee...many of which are vinyl and suburban. :?


There has to be residents to buy what the developers are developing... so it doesn't matter who spends the money, it comes down to the residents and businesses located in the area ultimately spending all the money.



I'm fine with McKee doing what he wishes, but buying homes and letting them fall down so the bottom drops out of the neighborhood is not excusable. He's more than likely doing this so he won't have to apply and pay for demolition permits.... and a lot of the buildings that he owns have significant historical value and wouldn't be allowed to be demolished as-is... they'd have to fall down on their own and be beyond repair for a demo permit to be issued.



It's also guaranteed that if any new development is done by him it'll be vinyl siding as that produces the highest profit margin and is the quickest to construct. If he were to do masonry construction comparable to the existing architecture the cost of such construction would be too high for any quick turn around.



I doubt he's going to do anything within the next decade anyway, so this is all a moot discussion. In the meantime I'll be purchasing a few more properties in my neighborhood and actually do something with them.

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PostJun 30, 2007#118

Shimmy,



People aren't hating on McKee because of the possibility that he puts up vinyl crap in the north side. That might be part of it, but the majority is because he's letting historical structures fall apart in front of our eyes. He's destroying what little sense of history we have in those beautiful neighborhoods.



It would be one thing if he would be rehabbing these houses, allowing the fabric that's left to remain in tact, and trying to redevelop around these homes, but he's not.

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PostJun 30, 2007#119

Believe me, I understand the concern and the reasons, I'm just hoping for the best (which I'm sure everyone here is).



And BSH, I applaud you and anyone who takes so much pride and care in their neighborhood.

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PostJul 01, 2007#120

Shimmy wrote:Believe me, I understand the concern and the reasons, I'm just hoping for the best (which I'm sure everyone here is).



And BSH, I applaud you and anyone who takes so much pride and care in their neighborhood.


Thanks, but I'm a relative newcomer to north city. My neighbors have lived here for 30+ years and have seen the decay with their own eyes. McKee has been irresponsible (as far as real estate is concerned) to the highest degree. If he did this crap in any other part of the metro he'd be slapped with a civil suit so quickly his head would spin.



If the readers of this thread wonder what we're talking about so fervently, take a stroll down St. Louis Avenue between I-70 and Jefferson... you won't see comparable masonry architecture anywhere else in the metro area... and yet McKee doesn't care... he's proven that he'd rather see those building fall down than anything else.

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PostJul 01, 2007#121

A surprisingly level-headed editorial from the Post today:


Hope for a turnaround





07/01/2007



For three years, developer Paul McKee Jr. quietly has been buying more than 500 forlorn properties scattered across an impoverished area of north St. Louis. His multi-million-dollar investment signals that a long-neglected section of the city is ripe for a turnaround.



Mr. McKee is an accomplished developer with such projects as WingHaven, a 1,100-acre residential and commercial center in St. Charles County, to his credit. He clearly sees economic opportunity in north St. Louis — for himself and for the neighborhoods of the area. Few others have had the vision to recognize such possibilities, particularly on the scale of Mr. McKee's holdings.



Successful urban makeovers have been done before, including some in St. Louis. But Robert Lewis, principal at Development Strategies, a St. Louis consulting firm specializing in real estate and development, said he never has heard of a project spread over such a wide area in a city the size of St. Louis. "He's to be commended for taking some leadership," Mr. Lewis said. "The kinds of things McKee could do would stimulate even more investment."



The area includes the JeffVanderLou, St. Louis Place and Old North St. Louis neighborhoods and parts of some others just north and west of downtown. Some blocks are well-kept. Beautiful old mansions still line St. Louis Avenue. But abandoned buildings are more common. One-third of the housing stock was vacant in 2000, the most recent year for which census numbers for the area are available. So many buildings have been bulldozed and so many lots are overgrown with weeds that some blocks look almost rural.



The area lost about a third of its population between 1990 and 2000, although it has ticked up a little since then. Current population of the three main neighborhoods stands at 11,000. Many of the residents are poor. The population is about 90 percent African-American. Of the families with children recorded by the census, 72 percent were headed by single moms.



But the last few years have seen stirrings of revival. New, mixed-income housing developments have been pushing north from downtown. Builders and rehabbers are busy restoring the 19th-century architecture and street plans of Old North St. Louis.



And Paul McKee has been buying property. Prices tend to rise when word spreads that a developer is buying, so Mr. McKee often acquired his lots through dummy corporations with different names. When some of those properties were allowed to deteriorate, it aroused the anger of neighbors — particularly those who have been trying to combat crime, blight and abandonment and attract stable, financially secure families to set roots in long-fallow soil. They feared that speculators were buying up abandoned property just to let it sit, hoping prices would rise. They traced the purchases back to Mr. McKee and blew the whistle.



Mr. McKee's representatives say he's now stuck owning widely scattered properties with no way to assemble a large tract suitable for development. "He can't go forward. Nobody is going to sell him any property unless they double or triple the price," said his lawyer, Steve Stone. "He has to sit tight."



Perhaps, but as a story by Post-Dispatch reporter Jake Wagman and researcher Jaimi Dowdell recently explained, the city of St. Louis owns much of the land adjacent to Mr. McKee's many holdings, and it could use eminent domain to help him fill in holes. A state law that includes a tax-credit provision that could benefit Mr. McKee's efforts in the area was enacted by the Legislature this spring and is awaiting Gov. Matt Blunt's signature.



Now that Mr. McKee's interest and acquisitions in the area are public knowledge, St. Louis Mayor Francis Slay should work closely with the developer to produce a plan that will benefit the city with quality, mixed-income housing, new businesses and new jobs. Given the time it would take to devise, approve and execute a plan on such a large scale, the sooner the planning begins, the sooner the revival can begin.



Such a development would be a tonic for north St. Louis. It could bring the middle class back to neighborhoods they've abandoned. It could provide decent jobs in an area without enough. It could form a node around which more businesses and housing could expand.



Any such development also must deal fairly with the area's urban pioneers who have been risking their own money and sweat equity to painstakingly recreate decent neighborhoods and with low-income residents whose options for housing already are few and far between.



And it is time to bring the neighbors, the aldermen, the planners and the public into the conversation. The silence from Mr. McKee and Mayor Slay has combined with an absence of hard information to breed suspicion, rumor and mistrust.



Alderman April Ford Griffin, who represents the area, says Mr. McKee owns so many decrepit properties in so many places that he spreads blight and discourages others who have rehabilitation plans. "We're being held up . . . because this individual has come in and wants control," she said. "You can't say you care about people and treat people with disregard."



Mr. McKee must take better care of his vacant properties. Some of the structures on his lots are collapsing. Entire two-story facades have fallen into front yards, exposing interior rooms to the elements. Other buildings are doorless and dark, making them havens for drug sales and use and prostitution.



Some plywood and nails, some mowing and some selective use of bulldozers could go a long way toward easing the concerns of residents of a community that has suffered from decades of decline and that, in the absence of concrete information, is nervous about Mr. McKee's intentions.



It's time to part the curtain and show the public what is in store.



Link

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PostJul 02, 2007#122

with such projects as WingHaven, a 1,100-acre residential and commercial center in St. Charles County, to his credit.


anyone else laughing (or crying)?

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PostJul 02, 2007#123

If the post keeps churning out good stories people around here might actually have to give them some credit. :lol:



But, out of all of that, I found this particularly disturbing:


Of the families with children recorded by the census, 72 percent were headed by single moms.



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PostJul 02, 2007#124

All in all, a pretty good editorial.

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PostJul 02, 2007#125

This is the line that stuck out to me:


the city of St. Louis owns much of the land adjacent to Mr. McKee's many holdings, and it could use eminent domain to help him fill in holes.


That's the first time I've heard eminent domain mentioned in connection to Mckee. Personally I'd support it in this case as many of the properties in question seem to fit the condition of "social liability" as recently defined by the Missouri Supreme Court in the Centene case.

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