urbanSTL

markofucity and dweebe have it right - there's some posturing going on, but this would be a great investment for the city. IMO, I think they recognize that and are working to make this the best project it can be.

I have phots of the model from the 17th floor of the bank of america building. These are pics of the cordish company model from a week ago. I'm not good with posting these things though, so if anyone could help me out on how to post them, I'll put them right up.



This is what they will build if they get some help with some public money. Anyone who opposes getting the money to get this done needs to move to another city. This would be the best thing to happen to downtown since the building of the arch.

Go to this thread for directions. Thanks for sharing.



Edit: I can also host them for you and put them on the forum if needed.

rlubbers wrote:This is what they will build if they get some help with some public money. Anyone who opposes getting the money to get this done needs to move to another city. This would be the best thing to happen to downtown since the building of the arch.

I disagree with your logic. We got the stadium with very little public money, and we can get BVP for little public money as well. If we have to wait an extra 3 months for construction to begin to save $100 million in subsidies that could then be used to prop up developments that actually need the subsides to get off of the ground, as opposed to just lining the already rich Cardinals Owners' pockets, then DT will be much better off.



Also be careful when labeling one project the saving grace of DT, STL recent history has shown that the all of your eggs in one basket strategy fails miserably...

From MayorSlay.com:

A recent newspaper story about Ballpark Village mangled a couple of important points.



First, what the Cardinals are now proposing is a <b>bigger</b> project with more private investment, more new jobs, more new tax revenues, and more excitement.



Second, what the City is considering using to help build the project are some of the new tax revenues generated within the project. We are <b>NOT</b> considering using any existing tax revenues for the project.



There is a complicated road of approvals, hearings, and check-offs ahead. And, this is not a settled matter. It’s the City’s best interest, not the Cardinals’, which has to drive the deal.



We’ll know in a month or so if the numbers work for us.

rlubbers wrote:I have phots of the model from the 17th floor of the bank of america building. These are pics of the cordish company model from a week ago. I'm not good with posting these things though, so if anyone could help me out on how to post them, I'll put them right up.



This is what they will build if they get some help with some public money. Anyone who opposes getting the money to get this done needs to move to another city. This would be the best thing to happen to downtown since the building of the arch.

lets take a look at this model rendering already....

"This is what they will build if they get some help with some public money. Anyone who opposes getting the money to get this done needs to move to another city. This would be the best thing to happen to downtown since the building of the arch"



Every development ever is the greatest the thing to happen to downtown since...(pick your thing).



-St. Louis Centre was the greatest thing.

-Union Station was the greatest thing.

-Old Busch was the greatest thing.

-Gateway mall was the greatest thing.

-Highways were the greatest thing.



Let's be realistic about this. The Cardinals are businessmen and they want to make the best possible profit on this deal. So it would be stupid on their part to not ask for subsidy, even if they initially reach too high.



Therefore, they put some projections together which make it seem like $100 million would be necessary to make the project work. You really think the Cardinals are going to low-ball themselves in the start of TIF negotiations? Go high, assume the city will negotiate and the Cardinals eventually will come down to probably what their original price projections were.



Just don't for one second tell me that the Cardinals are in this for the good of the community. They weren't in it for the good of the community when they threatened to move they team if they didn't get public assistance and they're sure not in it for the community when they begin asking for more.

It's all relative - they depend on the community. If fans stopped attending games/buying $6 hotdogs, maybe they would care. Where are the free-market forum members when the Cards need 'em? . . .

Don't mean to interrupt the debate here, but just wanted to fill everyone in on an interview I listened to this morning on the "The Morning Grind." They interviewed Bill Dewitt III and below are some of the highlights that I picked up on. A lot of this is repetitive so don't look for anything too earth shattering.



Question: Why did it take so long to put the plans together for this finalized proposal? Why wasn't it done 5 years ago when talk of the Ballpark Village was heating up?



Answer: Weren't sure what the state of the city would be in at the time they wanted to start building this. The Cardinals were also too busy determining the design of the stadium.



Question: Why not unveil the plans now to get people in the community excited about the project?



Answer: They don't want to put something out there just yet and get everyone's hopes up, only to have the scope of the project change in 3 weeks. He said they are pretty close to wrapping up a deal with the city (Good news), but the proposal also needs to pass through some state gov't legislature which could change the scope of the project.



Question: When will the plans be revealed?



Answer: Mostly likely within a month the project will be revealed to the public.



Question: How much money are you asking for from the city?



Answer: They didn't give an exact amount, but said it was mostly for new streets, and PARKING (Not sure what that means)



Miscellaneous: He mentioned that when the reporter from the paper came into their office, she was blown away by the display. He said the top proposal that they are shooting for will "redefine" downtown St. Louis and will make everyone proud in and around the region. They don't really have a backup plan at this point if this proposal fails because they are very confident that this plan will pass.



On the highrises, he mentioned that retail will be in the lower levels, offices in the middle levels, and residential units in the top floors. I'm assuming this means these buildings will have quite a bit of height considering they are going to have 1,000 units, but I could be wrong.

I really think we're giving the cardinals a bum rap on this thing. Some tax credits for a really ambitous project is definately worth it. Ask yourself this ... would you rather have a lesser project with no public money - or a really ambitous project with tax credits. This is a BIG opportunity for downtown. Lets not think small and blow it.

The thing is, they aren't going to get any more than any other developer. If Cordish was doing this alone, with no Cardinal involvement, would people be in such an uproar? Should we try to give as little as possible? Yes. Do I have a problem with the Cardinals receiving some type of tax incentive? No.

just a thought...but KM supposedly said that his mystery 81 story high rise would be announced in the next 60 days... and now dewitt claims BPV will be ironed out in the next 30.... and with all the density needed to fit those 1000+ residential units the only way to go is up. Not to mention there is now rumor of an aquarium going into this 81 story high rise and there were plans to have an aquarium in the BPV... I think that MW tower is headed for BPV

MattnSTL wrote:Should we try to give as little as possible? Yes. Do I have a problem with the Cardinals receiving some type of tax incentive? No.

That's exactly how I feel about this project. And I'm increasingly confident that it will get done soon.



And like you, I think there wouldn't be as much of a public outcry if the Cardinals owners weren't part of the process.

markofucity wrote:... would you rather have a lesser project with no public money - or a really ambitous project with tax credits. This is a BIG opportunity for downtown. Lets not think small and blow it.

Umm, I would actually like to see this "really ambitious project" before I answer that question, but I guess we won't get to see it until it is a done deal. Ridiculous. My definition of a "really ambitious project" and the Cardinals/Cordish definition is probably different. And, no, I do not trust the powers-what-be to make the right decision.



What irks me is that, through the years, those renderings of the complete BPV were trotted out many, many times and it was repeatedly stated that if the new stadium was built then ALL OF THIS WILL SOON BE YOURS and don't worry that we are only committed to two blocks, we are going to develop that and then some! Not once did the Cardinals say, well, if you want anything besides a Cardinals museum and a public plaza, you are going to have to kick in some more money.

hopefully - they're seperate - and both get done - imagine dt then ....

mayor Slay's going on the Morning Grind at 8am this AM to discuss as well. Apparently both he and the Cards owners were upset with how things were portrayed in teh post.

I think it would be great if the MW Tower were in BPV. Know it's not happening, but it would be so cool.

STL Rising-very nice recap of the conversation. I was listening to the show and found his comments to be very interesting. I am still a little uneasy however. Thanks for the great info.

ChrisInDownTown wrote:mayor Slay's going on the Morning Grind at 8am this AM to discuss as well. Apparently both he and the Cards owners were upset with how things were portrayed in teh post.

Actually just was listening to 550.... Mayor slay will be on in the 10am hour to discuss bpv



listen now live!!!



http://www.ktrs.com/programming/listen_live_online.html

I caught the promo this morning while in the another room from the TV so maybe I didn't hear it right. But KTVI 2 promised a Charles Jaco interview with Slay and DeWitt (during one of tonight's news segments) about the BPV along with an exclusive unveiling of some of the details and tennants.



Like I said I was in the other room trying to iron a shirt so I wasn't paying full attention and don't know if I caught that right. But can some watch or record tonight's Channel 2 news and see what they say?

This seems like a lot of damage control from a newspaper article. The amount of interviews and everytjhing is unprecedented in a small tiem span like this.

I think it seems as though they understand winning the battle of public perception will go a long way to ensuring that this project gets done. It's great that the Mayor and the Cards are actively seeking support and are determined that the project move forward.

Mayor slay on 550 the fan right now

I guess I'm not sure why they need to be doing damage control. I didn't think that the article in the post came off the wrong way at all. In fact, I'd say the Post was probably being more honest about things like tax incentives and such than the Mayor and Cardinals want you to believe.