urbanSTL

Ihnen wrote:On the optimistic side - surely someone has a dream and the $$$ for this site! There's nothing like it in the country. Busch is going to be full 82+ times a year, downtown's coming back . . . more retial/dining and another 1,000 residents would be fantastic!

In a downtown where most if not all of the activity to date has revolved around the rehabiltation of historic buildings, this large parcel represents the best opportunity for a large clean-slate and mixed-use development in downtown Saint Louis in decades.



I'm still optimistic, but I'm becoming increasingly concerned about the future of this project. I'm not reading too much into the parking lot on the NE corner of the site, but I do wonder why we haven't heard a peep from either the Cardinals or city leaders in ages...

Ballpark Village: "Hole" Will Become Something Impressive, Cards Say

created: 8/15/2006 6:17:54 PM

updated: 8/15/2006 10:30:53 PM



KSDK - It's a big night for Cardinals fans, as the Redbirds begin a three game series against the Cincinnati Reds. While fans are enjoying the new ballpark, there seems to be a big question mark about the empty lot adjacent to it.



You can't miss the large hole North of the new Busch Stadium.



"I understand for a lot of fans it's like, 'Let's get going on this because it is a hole in the ground, and it's not very pretty,'" says Bill DeWitt, III, Cardinals Sr. V.P. of Business Development.



But DeWitt says plans are moving along, slowly, but they are making progress.



"It's going through all the projected costs of the project, the projected revenues, working with the city on what can you expect to sell a condo for, down to that level," he says.



Baltimore-based Cordish Company, known for its expertise in creating urban entertainment districts, will build the 8-acre village.



It will have about 300,000 square feet of office, and some may include high rises, with 350,000 square feet of retail entertainment.



We're told they have preliminary agreements with some retailers. And 1,000 residential units, and underground parking.



"It's a carefully thought out mix and it's a composition that allows for the different uses in a way that doesn't distract from any one of those uses," he says.



The projected cost is more than $650 million.



Those details are also still being hammered out. "We fell really confident that the economics of this thing are going to be positive from the city standpoint from day one," he says.



They hope to break ground early next year, and have the first phase finished in 2008.

may have some high rises? maybe this is semantics - wjats considered a high rise? Seems to me that the true value of BPV lies in the opportunity to ge a view of the field ... which would semingly necessitate buildings 15 stories or higher - right?

Breaking ground early next year?



They've known about this project for how many years? How hard is it to update their spreadsheets with current economic data to see what they need to get this project to be a viable one?



Ridiculous.

I'd rather them be careful than jump to it. Remember, this is a gigantic development and things don't just appear out of nowhere. I'd like to see it break ground tommorrow, but not if it is going to be the wrong development.

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:Breaking ground early next year?



They've known about this project for how many years? How hard is it to update their spreadsheets with current economic data to see what they need to get this project to be a viable one?



Ridiculous.

They're busy prepping the team for sale. That takes time too.

I agree. I'd rather wait for a better project than have them rush it without going for all that they can get.

stlmizzoutiger wrote:

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:Breaking ground early next year?



They've known about this project for how many years? How hard is it to update their spreadsheets with current economic data to see what they need to get this project to be a viable one?



Ridiculous.

They're busy prepping the team for sale. That takes time too.

And people wonder why I'm not a Cardinals fan.

You can be a fan of the team w/o being a fan of ownership, no?

I always thought the cardinals ownership got a bad rap. When you really think about it .. they have a 90+ million dollar payroll in a mid market city they paid for most of the new stadium themselves and we've been winning for about ten years ....



now if they fail on the BPV - I'll kill them myself

I've been very supportive of the owners until the last couple years, when I felt they haven't taken necessary strides to take the team from competitive to World Series winner. Following 2004, they had a chance to put the team over the edge and they failed. And ever since, things have gone downhill, and they even cut payroll this year. Seeing as how they have a sold out stadium, cut corners on aspects on the stadium that don't reflect well nationally, and have reduced payroll...they've lost my support.



Not saying they can't regain it, but I'm skeptical this ownership group is committed to winning. I think they're just committed to making money.



That said, I doubt they'll sell anytime soon. Since Bernie Miklasz floated a rumor about Dewitt and Dave Checketts starting up a regional sports network that would only increase the overall package, and profit of the Cardinals. Much like they're buying a significant stake in KTRS.



Dewitt is a businessman, and he's going to make money. The Cardinals had a payroll of about $96 million last year ($92 m this year), and raked in about $292 million in net income. That's a hell of a turnaround. Calling the Cards a mid-market team is unfair to the franchise. The city of St. Louis is mid-market, yes...but the Cardinals are a major market franchise.

i always thought "mid market" referred to the ad revenue they can generate - AKA size of television viewership .......st. louis is not a very good media market

markofucity wrote:i always thought "mid market" referred to the ad revenue they can generate - AKA size of television viewership .......st. louis is not a very good media market

ya but the birds draw from all over the country..one of the most followed teams...prob the most after the death star in New York and almost as equally terrible sox...

The Central Scrutinizer wrote:They're busy prepping the team for sale.

I doubt it.

So I'm at the Cards-Cubs game last night and the guy and his wife sitting beside me are from Kansas City, here for the weekend to watch a few games and see the Arch, etc. So we strike up a conversation about the new ball park et al, and he profoundly states, "yah, its a great ball park, but what is missing is more stuff to do around the park before and after the game". So I tell him all about what's planned for ball park village and he states "that's great, but what's taking them so long"? Thankfully, Duncan misses another fly ball in left field and I was able to change the subject . . .

There is Paddy O's, Hrabrosky's, Mercury, Mike Shannon's, and two other bars who's name I can't remember. If you don't see those then you must be coming in from the East side.

....Beale's on Broadway, BB's, Lefty's, Broadway Oyster Bar and finally finish off with a trip to White Castle!!!

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:There is Paddy O's, Hrabrosky's, Mercury, Mike Shannon's, and two other bars who's name I can't remember. If you don't see those then you must be coming in from the East side.

I don't think it was necessarily bars he was talking about. I've not been to Kauffman Stadium, but he gave me the impression the experience was more complete (although the quality of baseball is obviously suspect).

St.Louis UAB alumni wrote:There is Paddy O's, Hrabrosky's, Mercury, Mike Shannon's, and two other bars who's name I can't remember. If you don't see those then you must be coming in from the East side.

Note that none of them are chains. Your average idiot tourist is only interested in familiar places, just like the ones they have back home. So he was most likely looking for an ESPN Sports Zone. Or a TGI Fridays.

^True, but Friday's isn't that far away. Neither is Hooter's. But I do realize that for some people, that's not even remotely close.

loftlover wrote:


I don't think it was necessarily bars he was talking about. I've not been to Kauffman Stadium, but he gave me the impression the experience was more complete (although the quality of baseball is obviously suspect).

Google Map of Kauffman



You've got to be kidding. Busch is located downtown, in the middle of the central business district. There is plenty to do within walking distance, not to mention it's got a MetroLink stop across the street.



Kauffman is located in the middle of a parking lot, right off the freeway. There's NOTHING to do there but watch a game.

trent wrote:

loftlover wrote:


I don't think it was necessarily bars he was talking about. I've not been to Kauffman Stadium, but he gave me the impression the experience was more complete (although the quality of baseball is obviously suspect).

Google Map of Kauffman



You've got to be kidding. Busch is located downtown, in the middle of the central business district. There is plenty to do within walking distance, not to mention it's got a MetroLink stop across the street.



Kauffman is located in the middle of a parking lot, right off the freeway. There's NOTHING to do there but watch a game.

Exactly. The guy loftlover was talking to was a complete moron. About the only thing they do have is a fair to decent tailgating situation before Royals games. But once again that's because there's nothing in the area.



Then again tailgating for Chiefs games is crazy great. Blows away most other pro football teams except for Green Bay. The tailgaters in KC are pros compared to St. Louis Rams fans.

stlmizzoutiger wrote:

They better be pros because other than that there's nothing to do around Kauffman and Arrowhead other than sit in a surface parking lot and wait for the game. At least with the Cardinals games there is a lot going on around the ballpark in addition to ballgames. Don't get me started on how much more the actual city of St. Louis has going on compared to "Wannabe STL" Kansas City.

Stop doing this please. We don't do City vs City firestorms on this forum. Take that nonsense to SSC.