urbanSTL

For what it's worth, the print edition of the Post today quoted DeWitt as saying that they wanted to use the extra time to "firm up some significant leases". I don't know why that was left out of the online version.

Grover wrote:My understanding is that they will consider it when DeWitt wants them to.

That makes the most sense. As Framer pointed out, if the Cardinals and Cordish are working to secure major leases, it pays to complete this work quietly. Not only does it help the team's case before the MFDB, it also helps in the court of public opinion, as there's no point in raising expectations again if more significant delays are inevitable. Might as well get as many ducks in a row as possible before presenting anything to the public again.



Upon further review, I'm okay with low- and mid-rise construction for the initial phase, but I do hope the Cardinals and Cordish have the foresight to plan for high-rise residential and office construction, because I believe the demand could be there again once the economy turns the corner.

Went to KC this weekend and was able to see P and L up close. Very cool place, lots of chains of course but it was packed at night and looks really good while integrating with the rest of the city.

I actually had the opposite opinion - I find sterilized artificial entertainment districts like P&L and Ballpark Village seperated from the city. Visiting P&L reminded me of a outdoor mall with more restaurants and bars than anything and seperated from the city - the rest of downtown KC is pretty much dead after hours.







THE QUESTION IS...



Do we really need Ballpark Village?

We did to revitalize downtown about 7 YEARS ago.

Now, IMO, it's too late... downtown revitalized itself naturally - not because of a "fake" district built around a ballpark.

Seriously, downtown St. Louis has real districts - Like Washington avenue, old Post Office, Laclede's Landing, Lumiere Place, CBD, and on and on.

Downtown St. louis now has a fabulous big chain grocery store, a large bookseller/store, and shopping.



Do we need Ballpark Village now... IMO - NO.

Will it be an addition to downtown - YES

DI say make it residential and commercial towers - and focus on streetlife as well, but don't seperate it from downtown.

I'll reiterate. I'd spend 500k for a 2 bedroom, 1500 square foot condo overlooking the ballpark. I have the capability and the desire to do so.



I know I'm not alone in that.



Hear me, Cardinals? You will sell high rise residential here. Trust me.

You have to wonder why they didn't put out some kind of sign-up for residential commitments, the way skyhouse did. After skyhouse failed, sounds like Cordish they got scared that their product would be the same. They don't seem to realize what they have. skyhouse may have failed partly because people were waiting for Ballpark Village. And of course the skyhouse site doesn't compare to a view into the ballpark from a private balcony. I'm not sure why you couldn't even combine condos on lower levels with a view, with retail on the bottom and Lawyer offices up very high.

Skyhouse didn't fail because of sales per se- it failed (like many highrises on tap around the country) because of the economy. Funding began to crumble and hence sales failed because of loan freezes and conservative spending. The housing market tanked.



Completely unrelated when you look at the logistics of the entire project itself.

^While I agree with your post, Skyhouse did sit at 25% pre-sales for about a year. Their financing agreement stipulated that they only needed to hit 40% pre-sales (extremely low) and they failed to do it.

blah blah blah... yadda yadda yadda....



Isn't that photograph from a couple of years ago when they unveiled the model?

Are they talking about moving their operations from one city center to bpv, or leasing an additional 200000 feet in bpv?

ntbpo wrote: Are they talking about moving their operations from one city center to bpv, or leasing an additional 200000 feet in bpv?

Moving. They're actually in Gateway One right now. Gotta keep them downtown.

^Peabody is in Gateway One.



I guess Peabody is the mystery tenant that Dewitt alluded to.

I don't know, it's tough to get excited over office space musical chairs.

My hope is that new construction, even if it causes musical chairs, will open up large contiguous blocks of office space that catch the interest of firms new to the area, or expanding within the area.

New York is losing some of their wealthiest clientelle, specially those that own small to mid privately held businesses. We can always hope some of these get attracted to St. Louis. At any rate. having even small businesses start occupying space within downtown would be awesome.

Having a up and coming financial player in Stifel Nichols as well as a major energy company is not a bad thought for Ballpark Village.



I'm with MattnSTL, new class A office space is needed to attract new or expanding businesses to downtown. Ballpark Village should be a priority for new high rise office/condo buildings in order to get density in an ideal location that is next to a Metrolink stop and provide more support for interest in Ballpark Lofts.



Gateway One void will be filled in time will be filled.

Musical chairs usually isn't a good thing, but there's a bright side in this case. Perhaps this means that BPV is closer to reality. One of the many tired criticisms of downtown by many suburbanites is that BPV is "dead." They often say "downtown will never be anything--just look at Ball Park Village! What a joke!"



So maybe this will generate some excitement and enthusiasm for downtown in people who otherwise would simply dismiss it, a la Schnucks.

JMedwick wrote:While there is no doubt the City has to get it done and keep Peabody downtown, it is hard to get excited about the musical chairs of office development. While others may have faith that once Peabody moves out of Gateway One that a new tenant will be found, nothing will change the fact that these large blocks of Class A office space "opened up" by existing downtown businesses leasing in the Ballpark Village will all be in buildings over 20 years old. Many of the other major firms downtown has lost, particularly law firms, have done so because downtown cannot offer new Class A office space. Unless there is a decent amount of spec office space in the Ballpark Village (which seems unlikely), it seems downtown will have the same problem it has had for the past 10 years.

Uh-oh. Is Peabody going to pack up and move to Clayton? Lots of noise regarding this...

sirshankalot wrote:Uh-oh. Is Peabody going to pack up and move to Clayton? Lots of noise regarding this...

I hope not. I am so sick of this poaching.

I know some insiders at Peabody and they claim there is no way they are leaving downtown. I am interested in what you may have heard.