urbanSTL

excerpt from the July/August 2007 Commercial Journal - St. Louis

Phase 1... Under a revised agreement with the city of St. Louis, Cordish also has the option of building condminiums on if "market conditions warrant." Cordish had originally planned a 250-unit tower.

Both Cordish and the Cardinals officials sy they intend to fulfill the village's complete vision, which includes the residential aspect. Martin says building the condos is still likely but he adds the planners' primary goal is to open for business in 2009. DeWitt agrees, saying while he remains oprimistic about the condo market, the level interest, particularly from the team's fan base, will dictate how plans will proceede on the construction of housing.

right now, ongoing rehab projects are meeting the housing needs downtown with hundreds of existing new condos and apartments available and hundreds more in the planning stages or under construction.

There will be three phases of construction for BPV, with codish releasing a full master plan sometime this summer...

^ bpe, thanks for sharing the news and pictures! I still see midrises and highrises, and I'm still hopeful these will be part of the finished product, even if we don't see much evidence of this when the retail opens in 2009. (...fingers crossed...)

Who knows? Maybe the demand will be more than expected and we'll get even more than the original plan.

Well, the renderings still look promising. Notice on the first slide the prominent Rawlings signage? Originally there was supposed to be a Rawlings All-American Grille at The Bottle District, so I wonder if they are moving a few blocks south instead. I also noticed signage that reminded me of Stir Crazy, but I can't be sure about that because I've only been to SC a couple of times.



I could really, REALLY, do without the plaza. Downtown has too many as it is, and it isn't like there's a lack of gathering space around the stadium now (people still meet up at the Musial Statue or the cluster of smaller statues on the NW corner of the stadium before the game).



The view down Clark Street looks great. Like I said before, I just hope we see some evidence of highrise construction going forward once the retail portion opens in 2009. I've heard before there were once plans to build towers on top of the Kiener garages, and I'd hate to see another missed opportunity like that. I don't think we will, at least not in subsequent phases, but I can't help having a little Show-Me State skepticism.

That no doubt does say Rawlings.

I thought it was pretty interesting for them to show it with both Cardinal's Nation and Rawlings. I suppose they're aiming for Rawlings and will set up their own restaurant if that doesn't pan out.

indeed indeed. I don't think they would just put Rawlings on the signage without their permission. Trademark?

MattnSTL wrote:That no doubt does say Rawlings.

FWIW, looks like it says, "Rawlings Theater" in gold font on the first floor directly centered above the farthest two right red awnings...

After looking again, since I hadn't made out the 'Theatre/Theater' previously, I realized that in that rendering, they've moved Cardinal's Nation down to the second set of awnings.

Also, seeing 3 floors dedicated to "Rawlings" at least by the window awnings, it got me thinking ... why not a "Rawlings Museum" with the "Rawlings All American Grille." ...

I've gotta agree with you, sounds like a great idea. Getting that, along with the Cardinals Museum, AND *crosses fingers everything works out* a new and improved Bowling Museum/Hall of Fame in the same development would make BPV an awesome place to learn a healthy dose of sporting history.



Also, don't forget that while Rawlings is most famous for baseball items, they could also add in some other historical sports info and memorabilia since the scope of their product offerings cover Football, Basketball, Soccer, Volleyball, and (I'm not sure if they're still in this sector, but:) Hockey. Don't get me wrong, baseball would probably be the primary focus, but having the additional sports could make it appeal to a wider audience.

And what a great tourist addition to keep BPV active year round.

Exactly. This would be a great addition to keep people coming in the offseason. Bill BPV as a year round destination for baseball, bowling, and other sports fans and it'll surely help keep things lively.

I believe these are more disingenuous renderings from Cordish/Cardinals.



They have already stated that there will be NO residential in Phase 1, yet there are quite clearly residential units above the retail in these renderings. So, there are four possibilities: 1) These renderings are outdated; 2) they are deliberately misleading; 3) all of what appears to be residential space in these renderings is actually office space, with balconies?; 4) somehow Cordish thinks they can pull off a miracle and build the Phase 2 residential directly above ongoing retail operations! (Not to mention that they will have to blend the Phase 1 and 2 facades and replace/relocate signage and lighting). If someone has a theory as to how they could pull this off, I'd love to hear it.



Edit: I am referring to the 4-5 stories of residential shown directly over the retail and the "street", not the high-rises. The high-rises as part of Phase 2 are feasible, much more so than adding additional stories to an existing 1-2 story retail building.

With construction workers, tools, and cranes.

4) somehow Cordish thinks they can pull off a miracle and build the Phase 2 residential directly above ongoing retail operations!

It's possible. You can make buildings built for additions.

^ Think through it. It is not, at least not the way it is rendered.



Think about the fact that much of the footprint of BPV is to be built out with ground floor retail space or parking in Phase 1, which will be in operation during any subsequent phases. Now think about staging areas, number of cranes, crane placement and swing radii, construction debris, scaffold placement, construction deliveries, retail deliveries and waste removal, pedestrian and parking access, the aformentioned facade blending, signage, lighting, and on and on.

jlblues wrote:Edit: I am referring to the 4-5 stories of residential shown directly over the retail and the "street", not the high-rises. The high-rises as part of Phase 2 are feasible, much more so than adding additional stories to an existing 1-2 story retail building.

I know. I think that may possibly be built in the first phase anyway. And why would a high rise built on top of a base be any easier than just a couple more floors?



Cordish said they will be announcing how it will be phased soon. We'll see what they have to say. This is not something that has never been done before. Not really common, but it's been done many a time. Tower cranes go straight up, materials can come in on the street, only a small area really needs to be blocked off for access. It's more difficult and more expensive, but not unfeasible.



I'm also not sure if the entire site will be built out during the first phase.

If in downtown Chicago or in Manhattan they can build a skyscraper surrounded on all sides by active buildings without shutting down the block I don't see how most of those things you list would be much of a problem. There are a few skyscrapers just north of Millenium Park in Chicago that added 10 or so floors to their skyscraper while keeping the retail and office inside active. It is most certainly possible. Difficult? Yes.

In the hope of clarifying my point, let me put it this way...



Think of The Boulevard. Now, imagine that the developers had built all of the retail in Phase 1 of The Boulevard, and then wanted to come back and build the 4 stories of apartments above the retail in a subsequent phase. They would have had to accomplish this while keeping the boulevard (the street), Brentwood Blvd., and the garage, open, with the outdoor cafes, cars, delivery and waste trucks, pedestrians, and construction activity, all competing for space. NOW, add duplicates of The Boulevard on at least all four sides of what is there now, and try to add that 4 stories of residential in several different areas, with multiple staging areas and different project schedules, above the ongoing retail operations, all at roughly the same time... That is BPV, as shown in these "latest" renderings, if there is no residential and only 100k SF of office space in Phase 1.



Do you think that would be an attractive, easily accessible place to go for a $100/person steak dinner at Smith & Wollensky, or to go browse for a pair of Ferragamo shoes, or to do your grocery shopping at Whole Paycheck, or to grab a cup of coffee at Caribou?

3) all of what appears to be residential space in these renderings is actually office space, with balconies?

what about option 5) all of what appears to be residential in these renderings is acutially office space, without balconies.



JT, I believe what you stated is a very legitimate concern, but I just don't believe they would build out bpv as all 2 story retail and parking.

bpe235 wrote:

3) all of what appears to be residential space in these renderings is actually office space, with balconies?

what about option 5) all of what appears to be residential in these renderings is acutially office space, without balconies.

Then the renderings are either outdated or deliberately misleading...options 1 and 2. Besides, that would be far more than the 100,000 SF of office space that will be part of Phase 1.

bpe235 wrote:JT, I believe what you stated is a very legitimate concern, but I just don't believe they would build out bpv as all 2 story retail and parking.

Neither do I. But I believe they WOULD build out BPV as all 2 story retail and parking, and then come back and build a couple of mid-rise office buildings and maybe a mid-rise condo building along the edges of BPV and call it a day, which is a far cry from what we were told BPV would be, and which, IMNSHO, would be a disaster.

Aren't developers bound to what they propose to the city? So, from that string of thought, wouldn't they be contractually obligated to build the retail including midrises, etc. as they presented it to the city when it was granted funding? So the only thing that could possibly be in question here are the 3 subsequent high-rises in phases 2 and 3. Shouldn't Cordish be forced to build what they presented in the renderings? I thought you couldn't downsize the project or even change the design without going back through all the official channels for a second time. Can anyone elaborate? If this is the case, we should get everything but the 3 highrises on the east end of the lot in the first phase, including that larger midrise tower on the west.

^Usually. No. I wish. You thought wrong. And, no.