The height limit, as SP said, set by height above sea level, something like 735 feet, is written into the city zoning code. The zoning district 'L' that dictates this height limit bound by Carr, Broadway, Chouteau, and the river. No variances have ever been granted including the Four Seasons. 10 S Broadway, Millennium Hotel, 100 N Broadway, all 3 Mansion House buildings, 500 N Broadway, and the Four Seasons all max out at this height limit.
The first glass pieces. From user nunya on Twitter. Looks to be the same as the office building.
![]()
- 2,056
Man.... the Pennant Building is looking pretty amazing already.
^Amazingly ugly, IMO.
If the whole thing had been glass, it would've been fine. But this is just a glass cube plopped awkwardly on top of a huge, ugly, badly-screened parking garage. An eight-year-old kid spilling a box of Legos could come up with something better.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
If the whole thing had been glass, it would've been fine. But this is just a glass cube plopped awkwardly on top of a huge, ugly, badly-screened parking garage. An eight-year-old kid spilling a box of Legos could come up with something better.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
- 2,056
I mean... compared to what was there. I'm obviously not comparing it to the Sistine Chapel.
- 1,864
Yeah, the designs are fairly clean yet still interesting. We're not going to see a Studio Gang design with anything connected to Cordish - this could have been much much worse. So I'm happy with how it's turning out.
I’ll always wish that for the Pennant Building the size of the garage/lobby portion was swapped with the size of the office portion, but this is really starting to come together. And I’m cautiously hopeful for the white brick/probably faux terra cotta that goes up on the hotel side.
Thanks for all the photo updates Chris. Some nice shots there.
Thanks for all the photo updates Chris. Some nice shots there.
rbb did a pretty thorough explanation of the height restrictions in different zones in a different thread a while ago: link
- 2,419
The Cardinals have three remaining plots of land within Ballpark Village.
Wouldn't they be smart to add several levels of parking at the base of each plot, with retail at the base and some height up top, to compete for spaces with the ugly white ballpark garages to the east/west of the stadium?
I'd love to see them do that and then buy at least the eastern garage, but preferably both. It'd be sweet to see them replaced with mixed use buildings.
My dream is to see a fully fleshed out BPV, with mixed use buildings where those parking garages are, and then buildings on the empty lots directly east and west of the stadium, too.
And then I want to see even more on the south side of the highway.
Even if things go well in St. Louis, we're, what, maybe 20 years from seeing all of that happen?
Wouldn't they be smart to add several levels of parking at the base of each plot, with retail at the base and some height up top, to compete for spaces with the ugly white ballpark garages to the east/west of the stadium?
I'd love to see them do that and then buy at least the eastern garage, but preferably both. It'd be sweet to see them replaced with mixed use buildings.
My dream is to see a fully fleshed out BPV, with mixed use buildings where those parking garages are, and then buildings on the empty lots directly east and west of the stadium, too.
And then I want to see even more on the south side of the highway.
Even if things go well in St. Louis, we're, what, maybe 20 years from seeing all of that happen?
May not be 20 years away from that. I could see phase 3 breaking ground in a couple years if KC P&L is any barometer for BPV. With that said, new construction often begets new construction. Also, I'm sure in 5-10 years there will be no buildings left to rehab. We will increasingly see new construction in the 2020s in my opinion.KansasCitian wrote: The Cardinals have three remaining plots of land within Ballpark Village.
Wouldn't they be smart to add several levels of parking at the base of each plot, with retail at the base and some height up top, to compete for spaces with the ugly white ballpark garages to the east/west of the stadium?
I'd love to see them do that and then buy at least the eastern garage, but preferably both. It'd be sweet to see them replaced with mixed use buildings.
My dream is to see a fully fleshed out BPV, with mixed use buildings where those parking garages are, and then buildings on the empty lots directly east and west of the stadium, too.
And then I want to see even more on the south side of the highway.
Even if things go well in St. Louis, we're, what, maybe 20 years from seeing all of that happen?
- 10K
When the ownership group bought the team, Busch Stadium and the two garages were part of the deal. They bought the team for $150 million and sold the garages maybe a year later for around $100 million.KansasCitian wrote: Wouldn't they be smart to add several levels of parking at the base of each plot, with retail at the base and some height up top, to compete for spaces with the ugly white ballpark garages to the east/west of the stadium?
I'd love to see them do that and then buy at least the eastern garage, but preferably both. It'd be sweet to see them replaced with mixed use buildings.
Current value: $2.1 BILLIONdebaliviere wrote: They bought the team for $150 million.
https://www.forbes.com/teams/st-louis-c ... d2e0904a15
I slightly disagree. The large garage is unfortunate, but like others mentioned if we can get a few garages with ground floor activation and some office/hotel/residential on top and that leads to the demolition of one of those truly hideous Stadium garages in the most likely distant future, then I think that would be a great trade off.framer wrote: ^Amazingly ugly, IMO.
If the whole thing had been glass, it would've been fine. But this is just a glass cube plopped awkwardly on top of a huge, ugly, badly-screened parking garage. An eight-year-old kid spilling a box of Legos could come up with something better.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
We also haven't seen any screens put up yet...as far as I know. I'd like to see the real thing before I make my judgment, I like the office portion though.
Anyone know when screens are going to start going up? I'm kind of surprised they haven't yet.
If we expect to have new construction downtown we better get used to wrapped parking garages and parking podiums, because that's par for course in most cities that don't have super expensive land values.
Listen all I’m asking is stop getting your final verdict of a building from a picture you seen and wait until it’s finally built completely out 100% before making your judgement. Also garages do have to have ventilation for this poisonous gas called Co2 now they could have put glass windows in that never raised and made it looked so much nicer but I’m 100% sure the fumes would of killed you.
- 2,386
A few from ground level of the glass going in on the North side of the building.
- 6,123
^See, that is utterly and completely different than the rendering above. And also really quite cool. I personally love the rhythm of the panels. Yes, it's a garage, but that is a VERY pretty garage.
^ I agree, I think it looks good. I also think the glass looks really similar to the office building, which I also like.
- 1,864
To each their own. I’m in the “yes it’s a garage, but it’s a good looking garage” camp.
Um, CO2 is not poisonous. It is essential to all life on the planet. Perhaps you are thinking of CO. Just flick off one oxygen atom, and you get a whole different thing.Gary5071 wrote: Listen all I’m asking is stop getting your final verdict of a building from a picture you seen and wait until it’s finally built completely out 100% before making your judgement. Also garages do have to have ventilation for this poisonous gas called Co2 now they could have put glass windows in that never raised and made it looked so much nicer but I’m 100% sure the fumes would of killed you.
Also, this building will be ugly - doesn't matter if they haven't finished putting the sprinkles on it.... The plus side is that something will eventually be built to the north of it that will be taller, so the dwarf-office-building-on-a-tall-step-stool will be mostly hidden...eventually.
What an odd debate, on parking garage aesthetics of all things. It’s not a good design and it’s not bad. Could it be better? Yes. But it’s necessary for now until future buildings block these buildings. Can I promise that those building’s garages look better? No but I highly doubt that future buildings will use a PwC Pennant Building style parking screen.
Plus, it’s Cordish. At least they added some art work and TV onto the Two Light garage, but it is bland. For St. Louis, at least they are adding a giant billboard and ST. LOUIS wording on OCW’s and the Pennant’s garages.
![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Plus, it’s Cordish. At least they added some art work and TV onto the Two Light garage, but it is bland. For St. Louis, at least they are adding a giant billboard and ST. LOUIS wording on OCW’s and the Pennant’s garages.
- 10K
I'm not wild about the design either, but what really bothers me is how small the office portion is in relation to the garage. Another floor or two of office space would really balance it out (and I realize that these decisions are market driven).framer wrote: This. Is. Ugly.
![]()