Ballpark Village

newstl2020 · PostJun 22, 2012#2512012-06-22T04:13+00:00

tbspqr wrote:Maybe KC’s market rental market is more starved/in demand? (KCmetro grew at 23 times the rate as STL last year). It could also be the same reason the KC project is 8 years ahead... KC (as a city) is willing to subsidize (tax abate etc) more than STL is.

newstl2020 wrote:OH WAIT the whole freaking P&L district which by every conceivable business measure is a complete disaster.
Have you seen Cordish's bottom line to know it’s a loss for CORDISH? I know it's not what they HYPED it to be, and it’s a failure as far as KC's bottom line... but I haven't seen any numbers to know if what you said is correct or not.
It is a suburban attraction in an urban environment and tacky... but doesn't mean they aren't still making $$ (especially since KC is footing so much of the bill).

I have not seen Cordish's bottom line. Fair point. HOWEVER, I am just guessing that if the tax revenue that KC is receiving is literally 20% of or less than what was "expected," the development as a whole cannot be on very solid footing. Those numbers are not sustainable even if they budgeted for 60% of what they sold the city.

Also, I am 100% with you ArchCity. This failure has nothing to do *at this point* with the economy. Absolutely and completely the Cardinals and Cordish. We are in the midst of the strongest rental market this country has ever seen. You can't build a 25 story spec residential in a 3M metro area but are gunning for one in a metro of 2M? They are too busy trying to make up for the gigantic ***** that is P&L to even pay attention to BPV. THE CARDINALS NEED TO WAKE UP!!!

stlien · PostJun 22, 2012#2522012-06-22T04:25+00:00

arch city wrote:Hopefully Roberts Tower will find a buyer soon such as Opus (Park East Tower), Conrad Living (Maryland Walk) or THF Realty (The Plaza in Clayton), which seems to want to invest downtown.

What makes you think they want to invest in downtown?

newstl2020 · PostJun 22, 2012#2532012-06-22T05:50+00:00

^I believe they all are or were at some point interested in buying Union Station.

rawest1 · PostJun 26, 2012#2542012-06-26T23:02+00:00

Some info on the tenants at BPV

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... f6878.html

The brewery will license a restaurant, beer garden and live music venue in the long-awaited development across from the baseball stadium that also bears its name. It's to be one of three anchor tenants for Ballpark Village's $100 million first phase; the other two have yet to be announced.

...

The Budweiser-themed restaurant will be next door to a Cardinals Museum, Hall of Fame and sports bar. Both buildings will have rooftop seating with views across Clark Street into Busch Stadium, and will be arrayed around a “St. Louis Live!” Plaza, designed for concerts and showing sports and other events on a 40-foot LED screen.

newstl2020 · PostJun 27, 2012#2552012-06-27T00:00+00:00

Courtesy of the Cardinal's FB page.

Nevermind. The Forum won't let me post it. Too wide I guess. If anyone has the tech savvy the cards have a large rendering up on their facebook page.

Curiously, it appears as though there is a large image of Pujols in the structure on the left side of the image.

[ask and you shall (every once in a while) receive]

moorlander · PostJun 27, 2012#2562012-06-27T01:05+00:00

$100 million investment downtown... I wish I was more excited.

kmurph42 · PostJun 27, 2012#2572012-06-27T01:24+00:00

two blocks of “entertainment concepts” that will be surrounded by parking lots, where the Cardinals hope to build more in the future.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... z1yx7bdREF

Where the heck is this "surrounded by parking lots" concept coming from?! Did not see those in the plans

newstl2020 · PostJun 27, 2012#2582012-06-27T01:28+00:00

Well, how much is for infrastructure? $35 or $40?

So technically there is a $60M investment in downtown. Looking at the renderings, I don't see $60M, but I also do not work in construction. Either way, those are going to be some pretty expensive restaurants.

chaifetz10 · PostJun 27, 2012#2592012-06-27T01:30+00:00

kmurph42 wrote:two blocks of “entertainment concepts” that will be surrounded by parking lots, where the Cardinals hope to build more in the future.

Read more: http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... z1yx7bdREF

Where the heck is this "surrounded by parking lots" concept coming from?! Did not see those in the plans

I can't determine if it's just horrible writing and they meant "where the Cardinals hope to build more development in the future" or "build more parking in the future."

My gut tells me one thing when my logical mind says another.

rheights · PostJun 27, 2012#2602012-06-27T02:38+00:00

The renderings are atrocious. A gigantic baseball bat; is that a bridge I see connecting the two buildings;more faux brick work. Too much to ask for something modern, or maybe something a bit more classy for an organization with 11 world championships. With that said, this is better than parking lots, a whack softball field and an unintentional lake.

The real ballpark village lies to the west of the stadium.

newstl2020 · PostJun 27, 2012#2612012-06-27T03:00+00:00

^That is because Cordish has absolutely zero imagination or anything remotely close to anything else worthwhile that you have mentioned. Just look at any development they have ever done.

matguy70 · PostJun 27, 2012#2622012-06-27T03:13+00:00

whoopie! I knew that this two blocks would become just this when the Cardinals built the new stadium 6 years ago.

Thank God that the rest of downtown St. Louis revitalized by itself and we don't need this imitation faux piece of crap anyway.

roger wyoming II · PostJun 27, 2012#2632012-06-27T03:17+00:00

rheights wrote:The renderings are atrocious. A gigantic baseball bat; is that a bridge I see connecting the two buildings;more faux brick work. Too much to ask for something modern, or maybe something a bit more classy for an organization with 11 world championships....

perhaps; but I bet Saint Louisans will eat it up.

realclear · PostJun 27, 2012#2642012-06-27T04:27+00:00

roger wyoming II wrote:perhaps; but I bet Saint Louisans will eat it up.

Compared to Paddy O's, what was Al Hrabosky's, and Kilroys, this place will be a taj mahal.

rheights · PostJun 27, 2012#2652012-06-27T13:33+00:00

^ Those places are authentic though (besides al's).

I don't doubt, with it's location and seating overlooking the field, that this will be popular. I just hope this whole development doesn't have a mickey mouse BS design.

JNOnSTL · PostJun 27, 2012#2662012-06-27T14:14+00:00

I see BV as being a more family-friendly alternative to Paddy O's & Kilroy's. Not that there's anything wrong with those places, but you don't see families with kids sticking around after a weekend game. Many families, especially out-of-towners, aren't looking for authenticity, they're looking for corporate, standardized comfort. I'm amazed that McDonald's hasn't put in a location right outside Busch Stadium yet.

rheights · PostJun 27, 2012#2672012-06-27T14:39+00:00

^ Let's hope the golden arches are not one of the anchor tenants.

Bart Harley Jarvis · PostJun 27, 2012#2682012-06-27T14:50+00:00

rheights wrote:^ Let's hope the golden arches are not one of the anchor tenants.

There's a Taco Bell & McDonald's directly outside of Wrigley & that neighborhood seems to be surviving quite well. Some people even try to recreate Wrigleyville elsewhere.

pat · PostJun 27, 2012#2692012-06-27T15:30+00:00

I think a Budweiser themed restaurant/bar might be pretty cool. AB is the godfather of brewing here in St. Louis so its neat to see them behind this. It also might be an opportunity to taste all the brands of beer that InBev has bought up over the years.

Kevin B · PostJun 27, 2012#2702012-06-27T16:03+00:00

"And the timing is no accident. The Cardinals are set to pitch their plan to a committee of St. Louis Aldermen this morning. The Board must amend the redevelopment plan and bless $18 million worth of tax-backed bonds for the project to go forward."

Wait -- what's that?

The Cardinals want bonds for development after completely failing to hit the agreed-upon completion date of Phase 1 back in 2009? That contract also required that the Cardinals pay the City a large fee for every year after that date if no development had proceeded...which they ended up not paying.

And now, seven years later, the organization is proposing a couple of cheesy, three-story "entertainment concepts" located on about 20% of the footprint and they're asking for an issuance of bonds?

I would hope the City Council brings these points up (plus the entertainment tax issue) when considering the Cardinals requests.

newstl2020 · PostJun 27, 2012#2712012-06-27T16:09+00:00

^As far as I know,the public portion of the project is solely for the purpose of re-constructing utilities to the entire site and the street grid for the entire site. These are necessary because they currently do not exist, and would be required of the city regardless of who is developing this land. Obviously, as it NEEDS to be developed, I think that this is a no brainer. Might as well do it now and get it done. Costs are only going to go up.

Kevin B · PostJun 27, 2012#2722012-06-27T16:28+00:00

newstl2020 wrote:^As far as I know,the public portion of the project is solely for the purpose of re-constructing utilities to the entire site and the street grid for the entire site. These are necessary because they currently do not exist, and would be required of the city regardless of who is developing this land. Obviously, as it NEEDS to be developed, I think that this is a no brainer. Might as well do it now and get it done. Costs are only going to go up.

Yes, if that's the case (and, you're right, it looks like it is) then issuing those bonds does make some sense. I really just can't get past all the missed deadlines, over-presenting and underwhelming, amended proposals, waived penalty fees and generally poor process for a site as important (and large) in our central city.

Cardinals Unveil Latest Ballpark Village Plan - St. Louis Post-Dispatch, May 22, 2012
This time, the Cardinals and co-developer Cordish Co. plan to foot most of the $100 million bill themselves. They will also buy $18 million in bonds that will be paid off with city and state taxes on the site — bonds the team had struggled to sell in earlier efforts.

“That removes a great bit of uncertainty,” DeWitt said.
The Cardinals also would build streets and sewer connections through the rest of the of the 10-acre site, but leave it as surface parking lots for now. The hope, said DeWitt, is that the site work, plus the Live Plaza, would make the site more attractive for future phases.

City officials said they were glad to see the plan. The project has always been designed to be built in phases, said Rodney Crim, executive director of the St. Louis Development Corp., and this is a good start. The Cardinals have always intended to make Ballpark Village work, he said.

“They made a commitment to do it,” he said. “And they have not wavered.”

The project will get some public subsidies — the $18 million in bonds backed by taxes generated from the site — but Crim noted that Ballpark Village will not receive $22.5 million in New Markets Tax Credits the city had planned to award to an earlier version. Those incentives will need the approval of both state and city boards. A public hearing on them is set for July 5. If those approvals come quickly, DeWitt said, construction could start this fall, with an opening slated for spring of 2014.

tbspqr · PostJun 27, 2012#2732012-06-27T17:21+00:00

rheights wrote:^ Let's hope the golden arches are not one of the anchor tenants.

Cordish's KCP&L has a Whopper Bar (aka Burger King). I was VERY UNDERWHELMED... basically a normal BK: same crappy fries served in card board sleeves, handed to you on bland plastic trays, crappy service. Only differences: higher prices, they served beer and a few extra burgers on menu. They said "premium dining experience" but again you still go through a line and can still see the fast food deep fryers etc.

Alex Ihnen · PostJun 27, 2012#2742012-06-27T19:54+00:00

pat wrote:I think a Budweiser themed restaurant/bar might be pretty cool. AB is the godfather of brewing here in St. Louis so its neat to see them behind this. It also might be an opportunity to taste all the brands of beer that InBev has bought up over the years.

100 taps per recent story. It would be kind of cool if they had all of AB-InBev's brews.

matguy70 · PostJun 30, 2012#2752012-06-30T06:25+00:00

Just returned from a Thursday/Friday in downtown KC for work. KC feels like Omaha or OKC to be. It is a very nice city but lots of open space - big blvds and very little urban congestion, infrastructure and fabric. Downtown feels so small there to me. It was hot out but there was noone around.
Went and walked the P&L block district. Now for what Ballpark Village is going to look like - will probably reflect a lot of what P&L looks like too. SAD! P&L looks like a big boxed in "party cove" with chain restaurants. Barely a shopping area - moreless eatting places and bars. The place was completely dead and most of the restaurants looked closed to me. There was a band setting up in the middle of the district for the evening I guess. I hate prefabbed districts like this and it is almost a disgrace to a city IMO. Just glad that this is an extension of the new ballpark - not downtown.
Very glad that downtown St. Louis has surged ahead on its own without something like this.

Ballpark Village

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