roger wyoming II wrote:Pop Fly, unless it would be very small with its footprint, while potential cool seems like it would be a horrible use at BPV imo.... also, SLDC already has supported the ferris wheel concept so you can't say ATL was all awesome and STL was not. Not saying the SLDC shouldn't be scrutinized/shaken up, but this seems hardly the thing to light the torches and get the pitchforks over.
I agree 100%.
Hell, St. Louis City allowed a Ferris Wheel to be put on top of a downtown building.
There have been Ferris Wheel plans for LaClede's Landing and Union Station.
BPV is the wrong place for carnival/amusement rides. It might work on the western Gateway Mall or LaClede's Landing though.
Have to go with Arch City strong opinion on that one. Two things that BPV/DeWitt/City needs to focus on
1) Phase II residential tower ASAP
2) Giving Post/Ralcorp a legitimate proposal to be anchor tenant of a BPV office tower. Even if they have to pay off Cordish with some hard square footage cash like KC did on the other side of the state. Outside of Bunge NA it might be one of the few chances to land a corporate anchor in the immediate future.
imthewiz wrote:With the offseason starting early this year, this would seem to be a perfect time to introduce further plans for phase II. Any news Chaifitz?
imthewiz wrote:With the offseason starting early this year, this would seem to be a perfect time to introduce further plans for phase II. Any news Chaifitz?
Unfortunately no. I moved to the East Coast and the turnover at BPV is staggering. I know almost no one left there now. I'll reach out to some others at Cordish to fish for details, but no promises.
I know of three national restaurant groups looking downtown near Busch. The three probably would go to BPV if someone from Cordish would actually return your phone call or email. When you actually get someone on the phone, they don't act like a jack*ss/ arrogant prick. BPV is a well documented joke in CRE world.
Anyways, surrounding Landlords will benefit from their ineptitude which is a good thing. JBucks space and Keiner garage to name a couple.
The sad part of that story is in the delivery which may or may not be as dramatic as it was as told through the lens of the guy's disappointment with his pitch falling short. If the city truly has deaf ears for any progressive development or envelope pushing ideas, that's definitely a problem. But denying some doesn't totally discredit them either. I'll admit, the Economic Development Team sounded like a trip into the offices of Scrooge & Marley.
However, putting the world's largest baseball steps from the nation's largest monument is a risky move. I think that entertainment and amusement pieces look great when they accessorize density (think Navy Pier, the Ferris Wheel on Seattle's shoreline, London's Wheel, etc). There is no question in those cities that the entertainment pieces take a back seat to the skyscrapers and the businesses, corporations, and residents that inhabit them. In STL, however, where we are already suffering from an image dependent on baseball, do we really want a giant baseball to go on the postcard while trying to convince the nation we are diverse? It sounds like getting a face tattoo then walking into a job interview. Even if qualified, people are going to have pause about hiring.
We are fighting the NFL pundits that we are a baseball town only in the struggle to keep football. I'd have concern that the sentiment would carry over about corporate progress downtown. "We couldn't land Centene, and can't build an apartment, so we'll put a giant baseball ride." Not that a ride in the right place couldn't be cool; but not there. I think the TUMS parking lot is wrong also. This just stirs up anger at not having Rawlings on site. That could have tastefully combined a real local, relevant corporate presence with some of the quirky/touristy/interactive baseball themed stuff.
kbshapiro wrote:I know of three national restaurant groups looking downtown near Busch. The three probably would go to BPV if someone from Cordish would actually return your phone call or email. When you actually get someone on the phone, they don't act like a jack*ss/ arrogant prick. BPV is a well documented joke in CRE world.
Anyways, surrounding Landlords will benefit from their ineptitude which is a good thing. JBucks space and Keiner garage to name a couple.
So what is the issue with Cordish? It seems like they are holding out for the city to give them a sweetheart deal before they move on to future phases. Its hard to imagine that these lots would still be empty if the city broke up these blocks and sold it to different developers. I could see hotels and residential towers going in overnight if Cordish actively pursued them. Where is the pre-leasing office to gauge interest in residential? Seems like Cordish has been a horrible partner for the city.
Makes sense to me that Cordish isn't returning calls on restaurants. Since they own and operate FOX Live, PBR, and Brewhouse they don't actually want any competition to dig into their profits. They are interested in keeping the market set on their operations first and any further development with additional retail and food/bars is totally secondary (unless they get to set all the rules and play owner).
^ that makes sense.... assuming they eventually go with a residential or office tower, what kind of street-level retail do you think might fit into their vision of a Phase 2? Do they have other bar/restaurant brands like PBR not yet here?
^^ kb, while not necessarily ballpark-centric, do you think the vision for enhanced retail at the Kiener garage has potential (via Pace)? Seems like a central spot.
kbshapiro wrote:BPV is a well documented joke in CRE world.
One can imagine how a call with them (if they returned your call) would go:
Restaurant Company's Broker: "My client is interested in leasing space for a restaurant."
Cordish: "Great! We will have to control hours of operation, prices of drinks, hours for happy hours and specials, the restaurant will have to adhere to and enforce BPV's dress code, age restrictions will apply during certain hours to be determined by Cordish, there will be no parking designated for your restaurant, the cost of parking will be determined exclusively by Cordish, Cordish will keep all parking revenue, Cordish will retain the right to charge licensing fees for the use of the terms "BPV" and "Ballpark Village" for promotional and advertising purposes, all signage and displays for the restaurant will have to have Cordish approval, additional leasing fees will apply for most exterior signage, any live music or other entertainment must be pre-approved by Cordish, strict staffing quotas are imposed for all Busch Stadium events, and on top of rent a portion of your sales will go to Cordish for the security, staffing and management of BPV. Any questions?"
sirshankalot wrote:Pop Fly is now looking at the Tums property. So you people who think this is dumb sh*t can continue to be happy with the parking lot.
All good.
I'm not sure if you mean the parking lot south of Tums, but that would be a much better location for an amusement use than BPV. The further south from Market the better... actually the idea of ballfields combined with this south of the elevated 40 on the GRG lot sound kind of neat.
Chaifetz is dead on. They're protecting their own venues that were largely subsidized by the public.
I understand that motivation from them.
But why not build new phases of BPV with first floor retail and hotel/apartments/office above where the third party (decent credit) retail tenants can kick the projects off. Be a publicly subsidized landlord. Sounds pretty good right?
But I guess being a publicly subsided restaurant/bar owner and landlord is even better. Aka Double dippin.
Not too shocking. It faced the parking lot and was not in direct line of sight from the stadium. Not to mention the enter/exit lines made it a pain to get to during the peak Rush Gameday and night hours. You'd have to make a trek through the fenced in lot to get there... I doubt sales were what they were expecting. Now, IF they build the next phase and open up a street grid, it might have drawn more traffic.
chaifetz10 wrote:Not too shocking. It faced the parking lot and was not in direct line of sight from the stadium. Not to mention the enter/exit lines made it a pain to get to during the peak Rush Gameday and night hours. You'd have to make a trek through the fenced in lot to get there... I doubt sales were what they were expecting. Now, IF they build the next phase and open up a street grid, it might have drawn more traffic.
I'm surprised it made it this long. Horrible location for this type of store. I think I walked there twice on nice days.
I LOVE Jamba Juice, so this is disappointing. But as mentioned, it wasn't a particularly convenient location. I probably made it there 3 or 4 times since it opened.
But it was a hassle having to go into the pay-parking lot (I was rarely coming from somewhere close enough to walk to) just for a quick 5 minute trip to grab a smoothie. You don't ACTUALLY have to pay if you're only in there for that length of time, but you still have to deal with the gate and the receipt and what not.
I hope Peacock has plans to put a Jamba Juice somewhere else downtown.
I know it's not as simple as this, but now within the last month or so, you've had suburban St. Louisans Dave Peacock and Joe Buck abandon their stakes in downtown all while telling those of us who make our homes in the city what downtown needs to survive (and that's another football stadium!).
BPV is following in Union Station's downward footsteps faster than expected.
Between the inconvenience of BPV, for both vendors and consumers, and The Arcade opening, OPOP Tower being online, the Blues Museum opening, and all of the attractive dining options going on around it, I hope there's a refocus/resurgence in OPOP retail.
As KBS mentioned, BPV has not been an attractive option for interested businesses, and just about everything else south of Market is either a surface lot or a monolithic garage or office building with no street facing retail. With Cupples just a bit too much of a patchwork and not naturally attracting foot traffic, the immediate OPOP area seems well poised to attract any retailer interested in a DT location.
Fill up one reasonably sized office tower, though, and suddenly all the food/retail of BPV and the Cupples area has life. You would THINK that would be motivation to do it. But clearly it has not been.
