^ There are few immigrants coming from Italy these days, but a lot of Italian can still be heard spoken on The Hill. IMO - The Hill is well on its way to becoming less and less Italian, in fact, but the number of stores and the established cultural awareness will linger for decades (and maybe longer with some regular re-branding as THE Italian neighborhood).
I agree.
(Sorry, I haven't been back to this thread in a while...)
But can you say the same thing for Asian communities? Asians usually work hard to keep their heritage going for generations. Thus, although mixed asian couples are seen more and more, for the most part the Chinese marry Chinese, Japanese with Japanese.
A lot of my Chinese friends from the coasts are fourth generation, and don't speak a lick of Chinese. But, it's interesting to see how they all stick together and end up marrying other Chinese people. A lot can do with the pressure from older generations.
I think its much harder for a Chinatown (and/or little saigon, little India, etc) to disintegrate than a little Italy due to the fact that the cultures are so different from its surroundings. It's much easier for Irish/German decent to settle in an Italian neighborhood, as it is much easier for Italian decent Americans to melt into other European decent communities.
(Sorry, I haven't been back to this thread in a while...)
But can you say the same thing for Asian communities? Asians usually work hard to keep their heritage going for generations. Thus, although mixed asian couples are seen more and more, for the most part the Chinese marry Chinese, Japanese with Japanese.
A lot of my Chinese friends from the coasts are fourth generation, and don't speak a lick of Chinese. But, it's interesting to see how they all stick together and end up marrying other Chinese people. A lot can do with the pressure from older generations.
I think its much harder for a Chinatown (and/or little saigon, little India, etc) to disintegrate than a little Italy due to the fact that the cultures are so different from its surroundings. It's much easier for Irish/German decent to settle in an Italian neighborhood, as it is much easier for Italian decent Americans to melt into other European decent communities.
There are few immigrants coming from Italy these days, but a lot of Italian can still be heard spoken on The Hill. IMO - The Hill is well on its way to becoming less and less Italian, in fact, but the number of stores and the established cultural awareness will linger for decades (and maybe longer with some regular re-branding as THE Italian neighborhood).
Our Italian Neighborhood/ The Hill is a lot more Italian than the Italian neighborhoods such at the North End in Boston or Little Italy in New York. I read somewhere, I'll have to google it, that the HIll was still something like 70-80% Italian. Anyone else hear this?
Oh yeah, bring on the asians. I'd let the entire country of North Korea resettle in St. Louis City if I had any say in the matter! Lots of space on the North side to redevelop!
phoaddict wrote:I agree.
(Sorry, I haven't been back to this thread in a while...)
But can you say the same thing for Asian communities? Asians usually work hard to keep their heritage going for generations....
I think its much harder for a Chinatown (and/or little saigon, little India, etc) to disintegrate than a little Italy due to the fact that the cultures are so different from its surroundings. It's much easier for Irish/German decent to settle in an Italian neighborhood, as it is much easier for Italian decent Americans to melt into other European decent communities.
Pho, the same thing could have been said about Irish, German, Italian, and Polish neighborhoods 100-150 years ago. Remember that those groups not only spoke different languages but also had different religions. The US was almost entirely protestant then, and the "statue-worshiping Catholics" were, at that point, quite different.
I guess my point is that "difference" is all relative.
Well, all except for Kim Jong-il. He can stay there, watch Daffy Duck cartoons all day, and have the country all to himself (I hope St. Louis gets the Pleasure Squad though). Lil' Kim can build all the nuclear weapons he wants then. Good luck with that!JCity wrote:I'd let the entire country of North Korea resettle in St. Louis City if I had any say in the matter! Lots of space on the North side to redevelop!
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I am surprised that STL isn't accepting the recent surge in Myanmar refugees coming to the US. Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne are swamped with the surge of Myanmar refugees coming into their cities. Yet STL accepted the Bosnians over ten years ago. I hope this region accepts some of the refugees. They maybe a burden at first, but over time they will have an impact on the region.
Also, I am friends with County Executive Charlie Dooley. I've asked him several times about designating a block or 2 on Olive a Chinatown. He says he would like it, but it doesn't seem to be one of his agendas. Maybe we need to get a petition and send it to U-City and the county. If that section of Olive is designated the tourism around there will certainly go up. People from all over would like to see what the STL Asian community is all about. Look at Oklahoma City and their Asian District or San Francisco Chinatown.
Also, I am friends with County Executive Charlie Dooley. I've asked him several times about designating a block or 2 on Olive a Chinatown. He says he would like it, but it doesn't seem to be one of his agendas. Maybe we need to get a petition and send it to U-City and the county. If that section of Olive is designated the tourism around there will certainly go up. People from all over would like to see what the STL Asian community is all about. Look at Oklahoma City and their Asian District or San Francisco Chinatown.
Oklahoma City has an asian district and we don't?! i'm quite SURE Dooley won't back a Chinatown for one reason... whistle.... 
10-intuition wrote:I am surprised that STL isn't accepting the recent surge in Myanmar refugees coming to the US. Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne are swamped with the surge of Myanmar refugees coming into their cities. Yet STL accepted the Bosnians over ten years ago. I hope this region accepts some of the refugees. They maybe a burden at first, but over time they will have an impact on the region.
Also, I am friends with County Executive Charlie Dooley. I've asked him several times about designating a block or 2 on Olive a Chinatown. He says he would like it, but it doesn't seem to be one of his agendas. Maybe we need to get a petition and send it to U-City and the county. If that section of Olive is designated the tourism around there will certainly go up. People from all over would like to see what the STL Asian community is all about. Look at Oklahoma City and their Asian District or San Francisco Chinatown.
Where did you get the info that they are all going to Indiana? Why are they going there???
What IS on Dooley's agenda? These are the types of things that city officials need to be educated on. This is why I've met so many foreign people come to st. louis and leave...because we as a city don't embrace such things like creating a chinatown. People in charge of stl need to go through a mandatory cultural retreat for a year before taking positions and open their eyes to the world. They also need lessons in marketing.
And the fact that Oklahoma City has an asian district and we don't makes me so sad.
It's official, I think I'm just going to stay in Chicago. Thanks St. Louis, good job.
(sorry im just frustrated with stl at the moment)
On another note, here's an article which I'm sure most of you have read. I hadn't realized there was such a substantial "Desi" population in the area!
South Asian Culture Rising Eyebrows in St. Louis
South Asian Culture Rising Eyebrows in St. Louis
phoaddict wrote:On another note, here's an article which I'm sure most of you have read. I hadn't realized there was such a substantial "Desi" population in the area!
South Asian Culture Rising Eyebrows in St. Louis
? Have you been to Creve Coeur lately? The Schnucks on Olive by Monsanto always has like 30% Indian customers.
In seriousness, I would suspect that the increase in South and Southwest Asian people in St. Louis is primarly due to educated people who came here for professional jobs -- at least that is the population I see.
phoaddict wrote:...What IS on Dooley's agenda? These are the types of things that city officials need to be educated on. This is why I've met so many foreign people come to st. louis and leave...because we as a city don't embrace such things like creating a chinatown. People in charge of stl need to go through a mandatory cultural retreat for a year before taking positions and open their eyes to the world. They also need lessons in marketing.
And the fact that Oklahoma City has an asian district and we don't makes me so sad.
It's official, I think I'm just going to stay in Chicago. Thanks St. Louis, good job.
(sorry im just frustrated with stl at the moment)
Pho, I respect your frustration; but I also think it's fair to ask: if one did push to create cultural centers, how would this effort be received? Isn't there a real possibility that it would seem artificial and forced -- like "welcome to the 'It's a Small World' exhibit at St. Louis!"?
It seems to me that it needs to be grassroots. Designating a neighborhood should be between the residents, business owners, and their alderman/ councilperson. If the councilperson isn't receptive, well, then that's what voting is for.
Lastly, I suspect Chicago only appears more inclusive because it is bigger and has populations of scale. Where one lives is a personal choice; but it's not fair nor realistic to compare St. Louis with a metro nearly three times the size and then say we should be able to match its perceived diversity -- many of the variables are beyond anyone's control.
I believe the U.S. State Department makes the final decisions as to where large groups of refugees are settled. Even if a particular city wants them, it does not mean it will be selected. I suspect that many cities are actually competing to be chosen. That said, I do hope that the region is doing everything humanly possible to consistently be at the top of the list.10-intuition wrote:I am surprised that STL isn't accepting the recent surge in Myanmar refugees coming to the US. Indianapolis and Ft. Wayne are swamped with the surge of Myanmar refugees coming into their cities. Yet STL accepted the Bosnians over ten years ago. I hope this region accepts some of the refugees. They maybe a burden at first, but over time they will have an impact on the region.
An interesting article about this subject from Christianity Today (those of you bigoted against all things religious - ahem, CS
- please feel free to ignore), complete with some great links at the bottom of the article for anyone interested in this subject (pasted below):The Town that Loves Refugees, by Denise McGill, Christianity Today - Feb. '07 Issue
Links:
How to Help Refugees
Here is a list of online resources with information about refugees and refugee resettlement ministry.
News and Information
Forced Migration (http://www.forcedmigration.org)
UN High Commissioner for Refugees (http://www.unhcr.ch)
Advocacy
Amnesty International (http://www.amnestyinternational.org/refugees)
Refugees International (http://www.refugeesinternational.org)
U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants (http://www.refugees.org)
Resettlement Outreach
Church World Service (http://www.churchworldservice.org)
Exodus World Service (http://www.e-w-s.org)
International Rescue Committee (http://www.theirc.org)
Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service (http://www.lirs.org)
U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (http://www.usccb.org/mrs)
World Relief (http://www.wr.org)
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phoaddict wrote:
Where did you get the info that they are all going to Indiana? Why are they going there???
What IS on Dooley's agenda? These are the types of things that city officials need to be educated on. This is why I've met so many foreign people come to st. louis and leave...because we as a city don't embrace such things like creating a chinatown. People in charge of stl need to go through a mandatory cultural retreat for a year before taking positions and open their eyes to the world. They also need lessons in marketing.
And the fact that Oklahoma City has an asian district and we don't makes me so sad.
It's official, I think I'm just going to stay in Chicago. Thanks St. Louis, good job.
(sorry im just frustrated with stl at the moment)
Here is an article about the Myanmar refugee influx to Indiana.
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbc ... /710150421
As for Dooley, he wants to give minorites fair representation in the county, like appointing two Chinese to positions in county offices, Dept of Revenue and Co. library system. However, IMO he like most blacks feel they want fair equal representation and when they can't get what they want they will protest or cause trouble. For example, complain about not enough minority contractors on construction sites (anyone remember the morning rush hour blocking of I-70 in north STL may years ago?) or oppose a Chinatown because they believe that part of Olive is theirs too. They are very close-minded and don't see the benefits of designating that section of Olive as an Asian district or a Chinatown, the tourism and visitors it will bring when its noticed will be a far greater cause and good for the local economy and bring nationwide recognition. Asians especially like to know if a city/region has Asians or places that serve Asians because Asians are quite tight-niped people and like to be with other Asians. Blacks seem to sometimes think their the only minorities and that they need to be treated with respect. I wrote articles in the Chinese newspaper in the past about this Chinatown desigination issue and many people, not just Chinese would like to see a Chinatown. The support is there, but there are so many things blocking it from happening (black business owners, some that aren't even in that section of Olive complain, along with the city of University City). I've mentioned it to Dooley when I meet him at private events or when interviewing him , but he keeps saying its in his agenda and that he is all for equal representation for the Asian community living in the county. Whatever his agenda is, this Chinatown issue sure isn't important to him. This frustrates me and a lot of my Asian friends.
Its sad places like Austin, Charlotte, NC, and Oklahoma City have official Chinatowns or Asian districts, while STL can't because of battles and disputes within its own residents.
Tysalpha wrote:phoaddict wrote:On another note, here's an article which I'm sure most of you have read. I hadn't realized there was such a substantial "Desi" population in the area!
South Asian Culture Rising Eyebrows in St. Louis
? Have you been to Creve Coeur lately? The Schnucks on Olive by Monsanto always has like 30% Indian customers.
In seriousness, I would suspect that the increase in South and Southwest Asian people in St. Louis is primarly due to educated people who came here for professional jobs -- at least that is the population I see.
You goto Maryland Heights and Bridgeton there are a lot of Indians there too. In the evenings you see a lot of them strolling/walking next to Dorsett Rd. before McKelvey. There are many Indians and Chinese living in my Chesterfield neighborhood too. I am noticing more and more of them coming to STL each year. This is good, also the local Chinese population is growing too. The Chinese Church I attend every week has someone new, either relocated from somewhere in the US or immigrated from Mainland China or from Canada. St. Louis' asian population is definitely growing! I say give it time before they get fair representation in the community and region.
10-intuition wrote:...because Asians are quite tight-niped people...
Can't decide which joke to go for here...Tysalpha wrote:phoaddict wrote:On another note, here's an article which I'm sure most of you have read. I hadn't realized there was such a substantial "Desi" population in the area!
South Asian Culture Rising Eyebrows in St. Louis
? Have you been to Creve Coeur lately? The Schnucks on Olive by Monsanto always has like 30% Indian customers.
In seriousness, I would suspect that the increase in South and Southwest Asian people in St. Louis is primarly due to educated people who came here for professional jobs -- at least that is the population I see.
Cool thanks for that insight. I haven't been there lately, but I'll definately check it out when I'm back in town!
Tysalpha wrote:phoaddict wrote:...What IS on Dooley's agenda? These are the types of things that city officials need to be educated on. This is why I've met so many foreign people come to st. louis and leave...because we as a city don't embrace such things like creating a chinatown. People in charge of stl need to go through a mandatory cultural retreat for a year before taking positions and open their eyes to the world. They also need lessons in marketing.
And the fact that Oklahoma City has an asian district and we don't makes me so sad.
It's official, I think I'm just going to stay in Chicago. Thanks St. Louis, good job.
(sorry im just frustrated with stl at the moment)
Pho, I respect your frustration; but I also think it's fair to ask: if one did push to create cultural centers, how would this effort be received? Isn't there a real possibility that it would seem artificial and forced -- like "welcome to the 'It's a Small World' exhibit at St. Louis!"?
It seems to me that it needs to be grassroots. Designating a neighborhood should be between the residents, business owners, and their alderman/ councilperson. If the councilperson isn't receptive, well, then that's what voting is for.
Lastly, I suspect Chicago only appears more inclusive because it is bigger and has populations of scale. Where one lives is a personal choice; but it's not fair nor realistic to compare St. Louis with a metro nearly three times the size and then say we should be able to match its perceived diversity -- many of the variables are beyond anyone's control.
I understand fully what you mean by grassroots. However, at times, a right hand is needed to speed and aid the movement, much like how the gov't plays a role in our mixed economy ...vs pure capitalism/laissez-faire (coudln't think of a better analogy). As Intuition stated, it seems the Chinese residents have pushed for such a neighborhood. Maybe someone on a higher scale, a buck stops here, who has higher vision and can make the movement a reality to make such a district in stl, using grassroots tactics. You know what I'm saying?
Also, for Chicago, I agree that we can't directly compare to Chicago, but we should LOOK UP to Chicago as an example, like they "get it". And our officials should "get it" too. We need to look for role-model cities. Chicago is like a Colonial, and we're like a 2nd lt city. Why don't we look at other cities as such?
To me, it's all the same principals of marketing, pyschology, city planning, etc. It all shares the same foundations. Big brands look at other big brands when theyre successful and they always compare...how do we match what theyr'e doing, how do we make it better, etc. I feel that people in stl don't do that. IMO, i feel that the city officials instead look at very micro level issues they fail to have the much needed longterm big picture vision. It's like they aim only to fix symptoms vs curing the whole disease or problem. One such tactic or factor in redeveloping the stl area that NEEDs work is this concept we are all talking about of an openness and dedication to foreign cultures, in this thread namely Asian culture. A Chinatown or such officially designated area would fit this need perfectly and aid in the curing.
I think much of the disease is related to:
- Lack of true progressive vision, due to a lack of worldview, How can the city become world class when leaders and citizens aren't worldly (continental vs. maritime thinking...we are majority continental..)? A chinatown would help <HERE>
- Lack of cohesive leadership
- Race is still a huge problem everywhere <HERE>
- Black and White mentality <HERE>
- Poverty
- Non-centralized government (county vs city, county split into munincipalities)
Let's work on fixing these problems, then watch the trickle effect fix other problems. How hard is it to have something done such as a metrolink expansion that goes through 16 different munis? Have you ever tried cooking a fish dish with 16 different chefs? It's absurd.
I believe it is the city leaders to LEAD our city beyond this disease that has plagued us for many years. Let's think BEYOND what we normally face, break the rules of STL, and make a Chinatown. Why? Because it breaks the pattern. It breaks the rules. It helps cure the disease.
We need smart people that understand these principles with big picture vision to run things.
Its sad places like Austin, Charlotte, NC, and Oklahoma City have official Chinatowns or Asian districts, while STL can't because of battles and disputes within its own residents. Sad
REALLY... why are these people protesting? Were the Jews protesting when the blacks moved in? maybe. I hate to exclude certain people, I obviously want to make sure everyone in the neighborhood feels welcome in that neighborhood, but clearly designating this area st. louis' chinatown would be helpful for EVERYONE in the neighborhood.
Realities and dreams:
St. Louis':
china town: Olive
Little Saigon/ho chi min: South Grand
Cherokee: Hispanic is El Barrio PC?
Gravois: Bosnian
____?: Little India
Ultimate Dream:
Page or MLK on the northside turns into a thriving black arts neighborhood, restaurants, clubs, jazz, blues, hip hop, whatever... maybe this could be mixed into the East Loop, but I like MLK and Page much better, fill in that old retail! Northside forever!
Ok, so it's not asians only, but it's gonna be majority. So if you want a good "different" halloween party and cute asian girls, the party is at Mekong, South Grand this Friday night at 9pm.
I don't know if I can make cause im in Chitown, but I'm reeeally tempted to drive down, seeing all the girls who will be there from facebook. (The party has like 300 confirmed/maybes and 700+ invites on facebook of asians in their 20s in st. louis). Some cute girls!!!
This is the kind of stuff i like to see!!
I don't know if I can make cause im in Chitown, but I'm reeeally tempted to drive down, seeing all the girls who will be there from facebook. (The party has like 300 confirmed/maybes and 700+ invites on facebook of asians in their 20s in st. louis). Some cute girls!!!
This is the kind of stuff i like to see!!
