urbanSTL

Xing wrote:

jlblues wrote:^So what is your answer to the question? Or is your answer neither...?

Which do you think is more likely to attract immigrants to a particular city?

both are good.

I agree, both are good.



For example, I drove into St. Louis for my cousin's b-day house party (moved to stl from Houston area, 1st gen Vietnamese). The party was the MOST diverse party I probably have ever been to, with people from France, Iran, Nigeria, Brazil, China, India, Mexico, Panama, Vietnam, etc. and it was all just friends and friends of friends looking for a good time amongst other international people and booze. Before the party, I was talking to a Chinese immigrant (F, 21) about how her family moved to the US. I noticed before the party started picking up, I told her I live in Chicago, and the first thing she said was "I need to move there, I hate this city (stl)". So I asked her why, and she mainly said because it was boring, slow, and racist. It lacked diversity, all the people are the same.



After the party picked up, when all these international friends showed up, she kind of had a change in perspective...like "i didn't know there are this many foreigners here." She ended up having a really good time. Most of the people there were students or people who have settled temporarilly. It's funny too because one caucasian friend of mine showed up to the party and was completely shocked. He obviously had never been to a party where he was the MINORITY. To see how he reacted and his insecurities made me think of how he symbolizes the st. louis population. Stl is in a way backwards and very continental thinking.



This brings up my point of 1.) There are many international people at St. Louis at one time, but don't necessarily LIVE or counted to live in stl. 2.) Foreigners find out about stl through job opportunites, schools, and settle here temporarilly. I'm friends with a lot of international people in St. Louis, and all the reactions seem the same...they like it at first, but want more. They have bad experiences with hoosiers or racists, here stories like Valley Park. IE, my girlfriend and I were driving towards Six Flags on 44 and this hoosier in a truck pulls up to my car and shouts out "Go Home!!" Then they want to go to Vancouver, Seattle, Boston, where they're friends have totally different experiences.



That is why there is doubt for me if stl as a region can keep foreign populations -- due to the lack of cultural awareness of a lot of the metropolitan population. So, yes, diversity plays a huge role on how appealing a city is to immigrants. But, at the same time, cultural centers like Little Bosnia, Chinatown are proofs of some sort that the community accepts those cultures. Chicago has an official greek town, official chinatown, official little saigon. That shows psychologically to immigrants that the city not only has a significant foreign born population, but embraces those communities -- here's an official community just for you.



International people like to be with other international people...IMO, I think mainly because of the concept that other Americans just "don't get it". It's one thing to be familiar with foods and some traditions of a culture, but it's the worldview that counts. And I feel that most St. Louisans have a small worldview, which deeply hinders growth and aim to be a "world-class" city as it once was.



My family has for the most part completely Americanized and melted in, BUT, we still cherish our Vietnamese cultures and traditions and share those with other Vietnamese in the city.

phoaddict wrote:

Xing wrote:

jlblues wrote:^So what is your answer to the question? Or is your answer neither...?

both are good.

I agree, both are good.



For example, I drove into St. Louis for my cousin's b-day house party (moved to stl from Houston area, 1st gen Vietnamese). The party was the MOST diverse party I probably have ever been to, with people from France, Iran, Nigeria, Brazil, China, India, Mexico, Panama, Vietnam, etc. and it was all just friends and friends of friends looking for a good time amongst other international people and booze. Before the party, I was talking to a Chinese immigrant (F, 21) about how her family moved to the US. I noticed before the party started picking up, I told her I live in Chicago, and the first thing she said was "I need to move there, I hate this city (stl)". So I asked her why, and she mainly said because it was boring, slow, and racist. It lacked diversity, all the people are the same.



After the party picked up, when all these international friends showed up, she kind of had a change in perspective...like "i didn't know there are this many foreigners here." She ended up having a really good time. Most of the people there were students or people who have settled temporarilly. It's funny too because one caucasian friend of mine showed up to the party and was completely shocked. He obviously had never been to a party where he was the MINORITY. To see how he reacted and his insecurities made me think of how he symbolizes the st. louis population. Stl is in a way backwards and very continental thinking.



This brings up my point of 1.) There are many international people at St. Louis at one time, but don't necessarily LIVE or counted to live in stl. 2.) Foreigners find out about stl through job opportunites, schools, and settle here temporarilly. I'm friends with a lot of international people in St. Louis, and all the reactions seem the same...they like it at first, but want more. They have bad experiences with hoosiers or racists, here stories like Valley Park. IE, my girlfriend and I were driving towards Six Flags on 44 and this hoosier in a truck pulls up to my car and shouts out "Go Home!!" Then they want to go to Vancouver, Seattle, Boston, where they're friends have totally different experiences.



That is why there is doubt for me if stl as a region can keep foreign populations -- due to the lack of cultural awareness of a lot of the metropolitan population. So, yes, diversity plays a huge role on how appealing a city is to immigrants. But, at the same time, cultural centers like Little Bosnia, Chinatown are proofs of some sort that the community accepts those cultures. Chicago has an official greek town, official chinatown, official little saigon. That shows psychologically to immigrants that the city not only has a significant foreign born population, but embraces those communities -- here's an official community just for you.



International people like to be with other international people...IMO, I think mainly because of the concept that other Americans just "don't get it". It's one thing to be familiar with foods and some traditions of a culture, but it's the worldview that counts. And I feel that most St. Louisans have a small worldview, which deeply hinders growth and aim to be a "world-class" city as it once was.



My family has for the most part completely Americanized and melted in, BUT, we still cherish our Vietnamese cultures and traditions and share those with other Vietnamese in the city.

You hit the point exactly! But what you also have to keep in mind is that St. Louis and its inner suburbs are a lot more liberal than the outer suburbs and St. Charles. When I lived in the Compton Heights neighborhood, I had neighbors of all different backgrounds and everyone got along fine. What I would like to see is The City of St. Louis try and attract immigrant groups from all around the world to help population growth in urban areas, because the people who discriminate against non-white immigrants are the same people who dont want Blacks to move next door, but that kind of sentiment can be found everywhere. I was suprised to find a lot of racism in suburban Los Angeles when I went to go visit my friend last summer and that place is about as diverse as it gets. The key is to get immigrants to move to the urban areas of St. Louis not St. Charles.

^That is SOOOO true. It's immigrants that gave this city it's character in so many ways.

Many immigrants come to this country and see so much potential where Americans are blind to it, for the vast majority. I have relatives who came here from Yugoslavia in the 60's who were penniless when they got here. In 10 to 15 years they had all become quite prosperous (business owners, real estate). They said to me, "I don't understand Americans. There is so much opportunity here. Why don't more Americans see this?"

Someone said a few posts back that the "rust belt" cities need to recruit on an international level. I see this as vital and an advantage for St. Louis, since our city has so much culture and beauty, something that is sure to influence immigrants to come to St. Louis.

I'd love to see major Chinatown, Indiantown, Little Saigon, Greek Town, etc. in St. Louis. The more, the merrier!!!

I hope Mayor Slay follows urbanstl. and does some serious thinking about this.

I wish STL would have accepted the Hmong and Vietnamese immigrants during the '70s and '80s. They are doing wonders for cities like Minneapolis-St. Paul, Houston, and Milwaukee.



The more asians the better, it seems. A lot of asians tend to want to be mingled with other people with similar backgrounds and culture. A lot of my friends have mixed feelings about STL. A lot of them don't like it here, saying not enough Chinese in STL, boring, and nothing to much to do. I had a debate about this over the weekend with a Taiwanese girl who studies at Wash U's med school. She told me once she graduates she wants to move either back to Taiwan or to LA. A lot of my friends do like the lower cost of living, but other than that they live here day by day, hoping more asians come to town.



There are many asians here, but definitely not like LA, SF, or NYC. Hopefully, more immigrate to STL.

Well, I sure hope that changes. It seems there used to be far less asians in the St. Louis area than now.

Asians are among the worlds most industrious peoples. It's a fact, as their VERY long history reinforces that statement. Look at the fantastic ancient civilizations and inventions, not to mention the fury of economic development being created now.

We have the western hemisphere's largest Japanese garden here. Of course, that in itself isn't going to draw more asians here (needless to say, asians are a far more diverse group)...but a big welcome mat should.

10-intuition wrote:I wish STL would have accepted the Hmong and Vietnamese immigrants during the '70s and '80s. They are doing wonders for cities like Minneapolis-St. Paul, Houston, and Milwaukee.



The more asians the better, it seems. A lot of asians tend to want to be mingled with other people with similar backgrounds and culture. A lot of my friends have mixed feelings about STL. A lot of them don't like it here, saying not enough Chinese in STL, boring, and nothing to much to do. I had a debate about this over the weekend with a Taiwanese girl who studies at Wash U's med school. She told me once she graduates she wants to move either back to Taiwan or to LA. A lot of my friends do like the lower cost of living, but other than that they live here day by day, hoping more asians come to town.



There are many asians here, but definitely not like LA, SF, or NYC. Hopefully, more immigrate to STL.

That's it. You've said plain and simple.



My mom came here from Saigon in '75. My grandpa worked with the American embassy, so as a result he got to leave with the last flight out of Saigon before the fall. They ended up getting picked up by a Catholic parish who sponsored their family, so it wasn't a city wide sponsorship.



Did St. Louis officially "not accept" the Vietnamese refugees??? If so, another dumb decision by St. Louis government to add to the book.

Asians are among the worlds most industrious peoples.

Are some "peoples" less industrious than others? I'm not saying that Asians are not, but it IS an interesting debate.

Asian cities are the most urban that I have ever been to. The street life/energy is absolutely amazing. Basically, entire cities are filled with street level retail and restaurants, great public transportation, and safe to go at all times of the day.

phoaddict wrote:...They ended up getting picked up by a Catholic parish who sponsored their family, so it wasn't a city wide sponsorship.



Did St. Louis officially "not accept" the Vietnamese refugees??? ...

I went to a South County Catholic grade school the 70s/80s & I remember some Vietnamese households in the parish. I always assumed it was common in STL in the 70s.



When Bosnian families started moving into the neighborhood 20 years later I just thought it was history repeating itself. I guess I was under the mistaken impression that there was a fairly large Vietnamese population in STL.



Maybe my school was just one of the few that sponsored some families.

stlterp wrote:Asian cities are the most urban that I have ever been to. The street life/energy is absolutely amazing. Basically, entire cities are filled with street level retail and restaurants, great public transportation, and safe to go at all times of the day.

I agree. Cities in Asia are the most urban I have ever been to. If you have time to travel and want adventure and something totally different, go to Asia.



So, IMHO, when you see Asians that travel, they usually have high expectations for the places they visit.

JCity wrote:

Asians are among the worlds most industrious peoples.

Are some "peoples" less industrious than others? I'm not saying that Asians are not, but it IS an interesting debate.

Yep - at least if you're to believe the hours worked reports that come out each year.

Or Europe just values time off work more than other places.

^ I was thinking "industrious" was synonymous with "time on." Euro countries do value their time off in lieu of work - and countries that work more are more industrious.

Could mean that, although industrious could mean a lot of different things.

what is the source of that ranking? Mexico, Poland and Greece working more hours than the US? that's news to me.

So, the International Institute does a lot to help and bring new arrivals to St. Louis. It would be great if someone from there office read this thread/page. What else could the city do to attract more asians? I say we work out a deal with the immigration office. We go to the numerous countries and offer visas to St. Louis City. open the floodgates!

The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) http://www.oecd.org



A little more info from 2002 hours worked stats:

Koreans worked longer than any other OECD country in terms of hours worked per head of the workforce. Each worker notched up over 2,400 hours, well ahead of the next two countries, the Czech and Slovak republics. American workers put in some 1,815 hours, just ahead of the Japanese (1,798). British workers put in less than the OECD average of 1,762 hours per worker, but were nonetheless well ahead of their counterparts in France and Germany, where workers clocked in less than 1,500 hours. The Dutch and the Norwegians were least workaholic, putting in around 1,340 hours in each country. Country rankings change between per-capita and per-worker measures of hours worked. For example, Greece, Mexico and Spain rank below the OECD average on a per-capita basis, but above it on a per-worker basis, while the opposite is true for Switzerland. The Koreans still work the longest hours in per capita terms, but this time it is the French rather than the Dutch that work the least.

Bastiat wrote:

I agree. Cities in Asia are the most urban I have ever been to.

What!?! But they are some of least diverse in the world! They need to have a lot more immigration before they can consider their cities urban. Diversity = Urban. I know because I read this all of the time on this forum. If Shanghai or Tokyo ever want to be considered great urban cities, they need to set up some commissions to get a lot more African and Latino and European immigrants. They are so yellow-bread right now!

Nice reminder that the "built" urban environment is about density. The "cultural" urban environment is about diversity (at least cultural diversity). Urban centers back to ancient times have exhibited density and economic diversity.

I'm not real familiar with the environment of The Hill. Does it play a similar role that a Chinatown would, or is it too established (not many immigrants from Italy anymore).