909 Chestnut - Former Southwestern Bell/SBC/AT&T Tower

STLEnginerd · PostJul 24, 2024#10762024-07-24T17:11+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Jul 23, 2024
you can fit 1000 spots on 6 deck garage here.

no way. some where around 600 for a 6 story structure and even then the lots are too narrow. 110 feet wide is not enough for the typical helical traffic flow. You need roughly 135 feet, although you could probably make 125 feet work. You could close the alleys and block all the south facing windows i guess but i bet that will be resisted.

Meanwhile... Serra sculpture park underground garage is looking better all the time. You could get in 3 parallel decks to reduce the depth requirements to like 5 stories underground. Restore the park on top including the serra sculpture if you like.. Tailor them for electric vehicles and maybe you could argue for lower ventilation requirements (never heard of that before but theoretically there would be no gas fumes)

dredger · PostJul 24, 2024#10772024-07-24T17:54+00:00

^ You could also extend the underground garage to the east and offer some public parking for CityGarden. Not really needed anytime in the future but worth dreaming of some underground mall parking and having nearby empty lots infilled with something other than parking garages.

I think you get a strong argument to use Rams settlement funds on three item

- Cover extra costs on CVC expansion space - a lot of foot traffic, hotel and downtown traffic
- Save Railway Exchange (buy it and stabilize - support affordable housing)
- Finally, Subsidize/finance cost different for underground garage to support 909 Chestnut development and keep lots free for future infill development.

dbInSouthCity · PostJul 24, 2024#10782024-07-24T19:18+00:00

Goldman as ruled out underground, just doesn’t make $ sense. Settlement money for downtown wont be used for anything other than public infrastructure like roads/sidewalks

STLEnginerd · PostJul 24, 2024#10792024-07-24T20:05+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑
Jul 24, 2024
Goldman as ruled out underground, just doesn’t make $ sense. Settlement money for downtown wont be used for anything other than public infrastructure like roads/sidewalks

But the lots north of the building as outlined are too narrow don't seem to work IMHO so you end up stuck. If you disagree please point me to a parking garage with a width of 110ft...

https://estimatorflorida.com/parking-garage-construction-cost-estimator/

I don't pretend the numbers are accurate for our state in 2024 to get a comparison.

Multi level garage 22k-33k per space
Underground Garage 27k - 55k per space

SO yeah its comparatively expensive but PERSONALLY since its on public land i would build with public funds and then lease back to the operator of 909 Chestnut. In this way its not even spending money its "investing" money. If they stop paying it becomes public parking supporting any and all surrounding businesses/residences. Ground breaking coincides with a groundbreaking on the reno of 909 chestnut.

JaneJacobsGhost · PostAug 01, 2024#10802024-08-01T14:00+00:00

135 W. 50th St. in Manhattan, almost 1MM square feet of recently renovated Class A office space, just sold for $8.5MM after selling for $332MM in 2006.

That’s an almost 98% discount.

dbInSouthCity · PostAug 01, 2024#10812024-08-01T14:03+00:00

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑
Aug 01, 2024
135 W. 50th St. in Manhattan, almost 1MM square feet of recently renovated Class A office space, just sold for $8.5MM after selling for $332MM in 2006.

That’s an almost 98% discount.

yeah but since 2006 that building has made over $1,000,000,000 in rent

JaneJacobsGhost · PostAug 01, 2024#10822024-08-01T14:06+00:00

Clearly investors have no confidence it will generate such rents over the next 18 years.

Point is that we are not unique. We are not in a doom loop.

stlnative · PostAug 01, 2024#10832024-08-01T14:13+00:00

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑
Jul 24, 2024
Multi level garage 22k-33k per space
Underground Garage 27k - 55k per space

If you want some reference, the Foundry pre cast garage was ~$15,000 per space.

PostAug 01, 2024#10842024-08-01T14:16+00:00

Although that was back in 2017 dollars

STLEnginerd · PostAug 01, 2024#10852024-08-01T15:17+00:00

stlnative wrote: ↑
Aug 01, 2024
Although that was back in 2017 dollars

cheaper than i would have thought but not a great comparison of cost regardless as the capacity is far below what i would expect from a garage for 909 chestnut and on a larger parcel.

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 09, 2024#10862024-11-09T19:44+00:00

Latest I’m hearing on AT&T Tower (909 Chestnut)

-April-May 2025 project goes to bid
-Parking will be contained within the building, some going under ground and between 4-11 floors above.

quincunx · PostNov 09, 2024#10872024-11-09T20:18+00:00

Hope it happens. 8+ floors of parking, sheesh. Imagine driving down and up 10 floors often.

Interesting that it's been reassessed for the purchase price of $3,638,750.00, but only for the land. The improvements are assessed at $0.

STLrainbow · PostNov 10, 2024#10882024-11-10T13:05+00:00

^ The building generated over $5m a year in property taxes as recently as 2009 (and I'm sure well above that in its heyday) but unfortunately it's been downhill ever since. Just $115,000 for 2024 (plus $75,000 for the special business district).

dbInSouthCity · PostNov 10, 2024#10892024-11-10T14:57+00:00

Developer is Boston based and Boston is known for pharmaceuticals, something to keep an eye on for this building

JaneJacobsGhost · PostNov 10, 2024#10902024-11-10T15:46+00:00

The only possible explanation is that ThermoFischer is moving its global HQ here.

Auggie · PostNov 11, 2024#10912024-11-11T01:39+00:00

Any idea what the office/residential split will be?

ldai_phs · PostNov 11, 2024#10922024-11-11T01:41+00:00

dbInSouthCity wrote:
JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑
Aug 01, 2024
135 W. 50th St. in Manhattan, almost 1MM square feet of recently renovated Class A office space, just sold for $8.5MM after selling for $332MM in 2006.

That’s an almost 98% discount.
yeah but since 2006 that building has made over $1,000,000,000 in rent

Iirc the office tower structure and the land were split with one being sold previously for a healthy amount. There is value it just lies in the land (maybe a land lease with an expiration). There is more to this story

matguy70 · PostNov 11, 2024#10932024-11-11T01:53+00:00

JaneJacobsGhost wrote: ↑
Nov 10, 2024
The only possible explanation is that ThermoFischer is moving its global HQ here.

This could be true.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufactur ... uring-site

Trololzilla · PostNov 11, 2024#10942024-11-11T10:26+00:00

Lmao they'd have to seriously up the talent pipeline in town first. The STL site is already on the verge of collapse.

stlurbanist · PostNov 12, 2024#10952024-11-12T03:50+00:00

Trololzilla wrote: ↑
Nov 11, 2024
Lmao they'd have to seriously up the talent pipeline in town first. The STL site is already on the verge of collapse.

why cannot it be the other way round? talent will follow where great companies are located. heard about austin?

urban_dilettante · PostNov 12, 2024#10962024-11-12T04:10+00:00

^ i don't know... UT Austin has over 50,000 students and Texas State nearly 40,000, so they have a pretty massive talent pipeline.

GoHarvOrGoHome · PostNov 12, 2024#10972024-11-12T15:21+00:00

Do our local universities have relevant degree programs for this?

Debaliviere91 · PostNov 12, 2024#10982024-11-12T15:58+00:00

We don’t have the talent pool. There is no substance behind TF moving their HQ here. I’m excited for the news on AT&T nonetheless. I would be surprised if office space is a major component.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JaneJacobsGhost · PostNov 12, 2024#10992024-11-12T20:37+00:00

My post was pretty clearly tongue in cheek although all this “we don’t have the talent” is a bunch of bs.

stlurbanist · PostNov 12, 2024#11002024-11-12T22:28+00:00

urban_dilettante wrote: ↑
Nov 12, 2024
^ i don't know... UT Austin has over 50,000 students and Texas State nearly 40,000, so they have a pretty massive talent pipeline.

how many great universities are there in a 10 mile radius of silicon valley?

909 Chestnut - Former Southwestern Bell/SBC/AT&T Tower

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