urbanSTL

STLEnginerd wrote: ↑

Sep 12, 2024

flipz wrote: ↑

Sep 12, 2024

TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑

Sep 11, 2024

The big loss university wise is that when UMSL was founded UM Rolla was supposed to be rolled into it.  Due to local public outcry and several state senators balking the schools remained separate entities.  Rolla was seen as too close to SWMo (MSU) and engineering and research would have been best adjacent TWA, McD-Douglas, and Monsanto, SW Bell and other industry leaders here at the time.

Didn't know this. I do like the idea of a big engineering state school in stl.

That said i don't think the economic benefit of the school is significantly driven by the type of degrees they offer.  Just by the number of students they serve.

Maybe, but the students served by HSSU and UMSL are by and large from the StL area and intend to stay in the StL area after graduating. An accredited engineering program in one or both of those schools could do a lot deepen the local talent pool thereby attract more employers.

I love what SLU and WashU bring to the table, but their students overwhelmingly leave StL after graduation, especially WashU.

More likely than any of this is Harris-Stowe being closed down.

Ebsy wrote: ↑

Sep 17, 2024

More likely than any of this is Harris-Stowe being closed down.

Yeah I don't know where all of this faith in HS is coming from. The last thing I recall coming from them is the lawsuit for employee mistreatment. I don't think the school is run well.

From Fox2: 

https://fox2now.com/news/missouri/st-lo ... on-growth/


ST. LOUIS — The St. Louis metropolitan area has recorded the highest percentage increase in foreign-born population among the 30 largest U.S. metro areas from 2022-2023, according to new U.S. Census Bureau data. The region saw a 23.2% year-over-year increase, adding over 30,000 foreign-born residents and growing from 129,604 to 159,710.

This marks the largest one-year increase in the region’s immigrant population on record. The Latino/Hispanic population also grew significantly, ranking St. Louis 4th among major metros for percentage growth in this demographic. For the first time in recent years, the metro’s Black population increased as well.

All of this is wonderful for my St. Louis optimism, but that last sentence has it bubbling over. 

St. Louis may honestly have a chance to start the jet engines if they can keep this up. 

Things that just don’t add up- the data above, SLPS +1000 students, more households and yet population lose in the MSA and city.

I don't know how accurate these immigrant population counts are, but I never trust the ACS Census estimates. I'm not forgiving them for being off by like 700k people with the New York City estimate/2020 census until 2030 at least. 

dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑

Sep 17, 2024

Things that just don’t add up- the data above, SLPS +1000 students, more households and yet population lose in the MSA and city.

None of it makes any sense.

St. Louis has added tens of thousands of foreign born residents since 2020, St. Louis has added thousands of housing units since 2020, we have positive GDP growth and outperformed the likes of Kansas City and Minneapolis since 2017, we have average at worst job growth, the central corridor has apparently added people, and like you said, SLPS has over 1,000 more students this year than last, yet apparently the city has dropped 20k and the Metro area has dropped 25k in the last 4 years.

Do we seriously think barely fewer have left St. Louis City since 2020 than New Orleans? -19,861 for NO vs -19,824 for STL.

There's just not a shot. None of that adds up. My bet would be the city is ~294k on pace for 284k by 2030 (-5.7%) and the Metro is around ~2,830,000 on pace for 2,845,000 by 2030 (0.9%).

We should be challenging the 2020 census and subsequent estimates like Detroit.

^ Agree, who initiates the challenge process?

That sounds much closer to a realistic number. Still doesn't reflect the estimated population decline for the city.

Pretty interesting to be at the top of this list! I’ve always felt that we have a strong LGBTQ culture scene compared to peers, and always though the Grove beat a district like N Halsted in Chicago. Looks like St. Louis is the midwest capital for the LGBTQ scene.

On subreddits of people moving here or considering different places, people don’t seem to put StL at the top when exploring or if already living here even ask whether it is LGBTQ friendly sometimes.

The LGBTQ community has brought many urban core areas back to life (including Forest Park Southeast right here at home). I wonder how we can promote this and attract more of this community to consider StL and invest in new areas.

Is this due to the same municipal boundary issue that make some of our statistics look screwy, i.e. that St. Louis City being its own county results in much tighter municipal boundaries than the others in the comparison, thus exaggerating our most "urban"-coded metrics, whether it is LGBT households, crime, pro sports teams per city resident, etc.? Curious how this list would look if you combined St. Louis City and St. Louis County.

Well SF and DC also have tight municipal boundaries.

StlToday - St. Louis school districts lose nearly 11,000 students over 5 years

Enrollment in most St. Louis area school districts has continued to plummet five years after the pandemic sparked an exodus of students, according to newly released state data.

Since the fall of 2019, public school districts have lost more than 6,000 students in St. Louis County and 3,000 in St. Louis. Schools in St. Charles County are down by 872 students. Fox School District, the largest in Jefferson County, has dropped 1,000.

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/edu ... 40339.html

Interesting find on Twitter/X...

If KC's borders were frozen in 1950 with no annexation, that area's population has declined from 430,535 to 187,902 (2022), a 56.4% decrease.  That would be fourth worse behind St. Louis, Detroit, and Cleveland.

Here is the tweet. Screenshot...

Regarding public university engineering programs, let's not forget that UMSL has the Joint Engineering Program with WUSTL, allowing you to obtain an engineering degree at public university prices in St. Louis:

https://www.umsl.edu/divisions/engineering/index.html

^^ TalkinDev,

Although the boundaries have remained the same, it's basically the same situation for Central Indianapolis.  Center Township is the core township in Marion County and its population has declined by over 50% since its peak in 1950.  It's 42 square miles in size so about the size of Buffalo, and contains downtown and the surrounding areas. 

Like most Midwest/Legacy cities currently it's rather uneven with development and growth, etc... some areas are quite hot and others are very much struggling.  The big plus for central KC and Indy though in terms of population more recentlly has been much higher HIspanic/Latino growth than what we have seen. and this has helped stabilize things over the past decade or so. But they are both good examples of how merger and/or annexation has masked significant post-1950 population decline in the core of most "growing" cities.  
  

Great insight. Just haven't seen it discussed much. 

Census estimates incoming.

City lost about 3k between 2023 and 2024. Region gained about 6k. Growth, but very slow. Illinois counties really holding STL down.

^ Disappointing news on the city... 2023 population was revised upward by about 1,000, but then we lost just over 1% from that.  That also may be adjusted in the future but I was hoping to be at least flat.  With a 2024 population of 279,679, the total decrease from 2020 Census is 7.3%, which already is higher than the decline from 2010-2020.

Also, it looks like the 2023 metro population was revised upward and there was an increase instead of decrease. So 2 years of regional growth. But mostly from the exurban Missouri side. 

STLrainbow wrote: ↑

Mar 13, 2025

^ Disappointing news on the city... 2023 population was revised upward by about 1,000, but then we lost just over 1% from that.  That also may be adjusted in the future but I was hoping to be at least flat.  With a 2024 population of 279,679, the total decrease from 2020 Census is 7.3%, which already is higher than the decline from 2010-2020.

Also, it looks like the 2023 metro population was revised upward and there was an increase instead of decrease. So 2 years of regional growth. But mostly from the exurban Missouri side. 

Remember that this is a different methodology that treats the city has a County during this est vs the census number each decade , Ness has said that alone shaves off 4000-5000 people for no reason. 

The big political story today will be metropolitan areas that “reversed” COVID declines thanks to immigration.

Without international immigration, this is true for the St. Louis region also. Domestic migration is negative. Natural (birth/death) is also negative.

The next Mayor term and County Executive should announce a full time Census Commission to operate between 2025-2029 ahead of 2030 census.