Yes, Here's one I found yesterday that tops 100k. Near the center point in your post.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jul 26, 2024Anybody found a larger population at 3 km?
This is biggest one I’ve found. No metro stops makes a pretty big argument we have to push metrolink expansion into south city.
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The reason the Gravois option wasn't chosen in the 2008 study and Jefferson favored was mainly because of the complex intersections on Gravois and the bad land uses along the street, it's a lot of auto dealerships and gas stations. Additionally, the street is pretty narrow around Morgan Ford in Bevo.
The conversation about it has obviously never died even though they killed the option long ago.
The conversation about it has obviously never died even though they killed the option long ago.
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Nice!STLrainbow wrote: ↑Jul 26, 2024Yes, Here's one I found yesterday that tops 100k. Near the center point in your post.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Jul 26, 2024Anybody found a larger population at 3 km?
This is biggest one I’ve found. No metro stops makes a pretty big argument we have to push metrolink expansion into south city.
On the Gravois light rail, it would split the densest part of the city. And Gravois could become a great street with such a project. Now that they are all in on Jefferson, which I think is also a good choice, I think Kingshighway metrolink and Gravois BRT should be in the back of Bi-States mind. A streetcar circulator similar to Cincy or KC that travels broadway, wash ave, grand, and cherokee would also be an awesome study. I think we should be pursuing those options to fill out the system as soon as we are in the clear on Jefferson.
Pic 1 - This was the lowest density that I expected compared to what I thought it would be. We should be TODing the heck out of the metro stops here and looking for height throughout CWE and midtown and start utilizing the space abutting Delmar.
Pic 2 - St. Charles with solid density. They seem to be urbanizing better than West County that’s for sure.
Pic 3 - Need to continue adding residents downtown but this is better than many cities I looked at. Also it’s so cut off from its density to the south, that this probably oversells the accessible density to downtown.
Pic 4 - East St. Louis man. Really unfortunate to see how low the density has gotten. Also really bad for downtown’s population surrounding.
Pic 2 - St. Charles with solid density. They seem to be urbanizing better than West County that’s for sure.
Pic 3 - Need to continue adding residents downtown but this is better than many cities I looked at. Also it’s so cut off from its density to the south, that this probably oversells the accessible density to downtown.
Pic 4 - East St. Louis man. Really unfortunate to see how low the density has gotten. Also really bad for downtown’s population surrounding.
+1
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We need to plop down a large public research university in our city. Here are the dorm/student housing "group quarters" populations from the 2020 Census for STL City and peers Pittsburgh and Cincy.... similar total populations but you can see Pitt & UC at work here. (I also know downtown Pittsburgh benefits from Park Point Unversity, including its several residence halls.)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
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would be easier to invest in Harris Stowe making it stronger and with broader appeal. Of course that would require state support.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2024We need to plop down a large public research university in our city. Here are the dorm/student housing "group quarters" populations from the 2020 Census for STL City and peers Pittsburgh and Cincy.... similar total populations but you can see Pitt & UC at work here. (I also know downtown Pittsburgh benefits from Park Point Unversity, including its several residence halls.)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
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Missouri is odd where there is not a significant public research university in either of its two major cities. UMKC and UMSL have endowments of only $100-200 million, so realistically, no, they cannot be considered actual major public research universities. KU is not far from Kansas City and MU not far from either, but it is surprising there was not a larger public university to start earlier and grow in either city. I would say the combination of WashU and SLU caused that in STL; not sure about KC which has very little higher education presence for a metro its size.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2024We need to plop down a large public research university in our city. Here are the dorm/student housing "group quarters" populations from the 2020 Census for STL City and peers Pittsburgh and Cincy.... similar total populations but you can see Pitt & UC at work here. (I also know downtown Pittsburgh benefits from Park Point Unversity, including its several residence halls.)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
It is the case for most states that the main public university is not in the biggest city (though some universities propelled the city to be much larger) but usually the secondary public university in a major city has had more growth than UMKC and UMSL.
It would have been nice for UMSL to had been in the city limits and developed into Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Louisville, or even Illinois-Chicago, Wayne State (Detroit), or IUPUI (Indy). UMSL has done okay though.
WashU will be expanding with its purchase of Fontbonne. I am worried about Webster, Lindenwood, Maryville, SIU-E maintaining enrollment to keep the higher education attractions that we do have.
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weird that your criteria is it be a "research" university. I assume this is specifically hard science research. In a lot of ways who cares if its a research university. The size of the student body and the proportion of noncommuter students is the main benefit. UMKC is located adjacent to a fairly urban part of the city and has a student body of ~15k students. That an incredible asset to KC if the students are living nearby. UMSL has less benefit to the surrounding area because the student body is mainly locals and mostly commuter students rather than people moving the the area for school.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024Missouri is odd where there is not a significant public research university in either of its two major cities. UMKC and UMSL have endowments of only $100-200 million, so realistically, no, they cannot be considered actual major public research universities. KU is not far from Kansas City and MU not far from either, but it is surprising there was not a larger public university to start earlier and grow in either city. I would say the combination of WashU and SLU caused that in STL; not sure about KC which has very little higher education presence for a metro its size.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2024We need to plop down a large public research university in our city. Here are the dorm/student housing "group quarters" populations from the 2020 Census for STL City and peers Pittsburgh and Cincy.... similar total populations but you can see Pitt & UC at work here. (I also know downtown Pittsburgh benefits from Park Point Unversity, including its several residence halls.)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
It is the case for most states that the main public university is not in the biggest city (though some universities propelled the city to be much larger) but usually the secondary public university in a major city has had more growth than UMKC and UMSL.
It would have been nice for UMSL to had been in the city limits and developed into Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Louisville, or even Illinois-Chicago, Wayne State (Detroit), or IUPUI (Indy). UMSL has done okay though.
WashU will be expanding with its purchase of Fontbonne. I am worried about Webster, Lindenwood, Maryville, SIU-E maintaining enrollment to keep the higher education attractions that we do have.
I assure you, you don't want anything like IUPUI in the city limits. If people think SLU is bad for land use....let's just say IUPUI makes SLU look like land use gods.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024Missouri is odd where there is not a significant public research university in either of its two major cities. UMKC and UMSL have endowments of only $100-200 million, so realistically, no, they cannot be considered actual major public research universities. KU is not far from Kansas City and MU not far from either, but it is surprising there was not a larger public university to start earlier and grow in either city. I would say the combination of WashU and SLU caused that in STL; not sure about KC which has very little higher education presence for a metro its size.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2024We need to plop down a large public research university in our city. Here are the dorm/student housing "group quarters" populations from the 2020 Census for STL City and peers Pittsburgh and Cincy.... similar total populations but you can see Pitt & UC at work here. (I also know downtown Pittsburgh benefits from Park Point Unversity, including its several residence halls.)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
It is the case for most states that the main public university is not in the biggest city (though some universities propelled the city to be much larger) but usually the secondary public university in a major city has had more growth than UMKC and UMSL.
It would have been nice for UMSL to had been in the city limits and developed into Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Louisville, or even Illinois-Chicago, Wayne State (Detroit), or IUPUI (Indy). UMSL has done okay though.
WashU will be expanding with its purchase of Fontbonne. I am worried about Webster, Lindenwood, Maryville, SIU-E maintaining enrollment to keep the higher education attractions that we do have.
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Oh, I would agree about land use, Illinois-Chicago is actually pretty bad too. Just referring to enrollment and financesAuggie wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024I assure you, you don't want anything like IUPUI in the city limits. If people think SLU is bad for land use....let's just say IUPUI makes SLU look like land use gods.delmar2debaliviere2downtown wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024Missouri is odd where there is not a significant public research university in either of its two major cities. UMKC and UMSL have endowments of only $100-200 million, so realistically, no, they cannot be considered actual major public research universities. KU is not far from Kansas City and MU not far from either, but it is surprising there was not a larger public university to start earlier and grow in either city. I would say the combination of WashU and SLU caused that in STL; not sure about KC which has very little higher education presence for a metro its size.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2024We need to plop down a large public research university in our city. Here are the dorm/student housing "group quarters" populations from the 2020 Census for STL City and peers Pittsburgh and Cincy.... similar total populations but you can see Pitt & UC at work here. (I also know downtown Pittsburgh benefits from Park Point Unversity, including its several residence halls.)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
It is the case for most states that the main public university is not in the biggest city (though some universities propelled the city to be much larger) but usually the secondary public university in a major city has had more growth than UMKC and UMSL.
It would have been nice for UMSL to had been in the city limits and developed into Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Louisville, or even Illinois-Chicago, Wayne State (Detroit), or IUPUI (Indy). UMSL has done okay though.
WashU will be expanding with its purchase of Fontbonne. I am worried about Webster, Lindenwood, Maryville, SIU-E maintaining enrollment to keep the higher education attractions that we do have.
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I just spent a weekend in Boston and it was just full of college students....also Boston restaurant prices arent too different then here
Yes, Boston is basically just a huge college town.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024I just spent a weekend in Boston and it was just full of college students....also Boston restaurant prices arent too different then here
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Boston had a 2020 whopping student "group quarters" population of 35,750. And of course there's Cambridge across the river.... it had another 15,000.
Atlanta also had a pretty large population with 22,683 students living in group quarters. (Kansas City referenced above only had 2,284.)
Columbia, MO had 9,089 and Lawrence, KS 6,994.
Atlanta also had a pretty large population with 22,683 students living in group quarters. (Kansas City referenced above only had 2,284.)
Columbia, MO had 9,089 and Lawrence, KS 6,994.
How many does St. Louis have?STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024Boston had a 2020 whopping student "group quarters" population of 35,750. And of course there's Cambridge across the river.... it had another 15,000.
Atlanta also had a pretty large population with 22,683 students living in group quarters. (Kansas City referenced above only had 2,284.)
Columbia, MO had 9,089 and Lawrence, KS 6,994.
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My brother lives in an 1893 townhouse near Northeastern U -- 2 blocks from Symphony Hall. The whole city shuts down for a week or so for college move-in in early September. Streets close, parking rules change etc. He and his wife tolerated it every year. My daughter graduated from Tufts a few years ago so we got used to Boston traffic. And honking.dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024I just spent a weekend in Boston and it was just full of college students....also Boston restaurant prices arent too different then here
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Sorry, I had these posted in my initial comment...goat314 wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024How many does St. Louis have?STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024Boston had a 2020 whopping student "group quarters" population of 35,750. And of course there's Cambridge across the river.... it had another 15,000.
Atlanta also had a pretty large population with 22,683 students living in group quarters. (Kansas City referenced above only had 2,284.)
Columbia, MO had 9,089 and Lawrence, KS 6,994.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
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I know these aren’t counted as part of the above but my building alone has 80-100 SLU students. Every spring 20-30 move out and every August 20-30 move in
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My STL "what if" of the day is imagine what Dutchtown would look like if Maryville stayed in its original location off Meramec (the current post office and Maryville Gardens Apartment complex)
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Not as impactful as if Maryville was still in Dutchtown, but Concordia Seminary was also there before it moved to Clayton.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote:My STL "what if" of the day is imagine what Dutchtown would look like if Maryville stayed in its original location off Meramec (the current post office and Maryville Gardens Apartment complex)
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I've thought about this too. Obviously Maryville is smaller but in the hypothetical I always think about if they would have pursued the SLU model of neighborhood demolition and landbanking vs. the Wash U model of redevelopment/rehab. The latter would've been great for Dutchtown, the former i don't know if that would be better than what's there now.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Sep 11, 2024My STL "what if" of the day is imagine what Dutchtown would look like if Maryville stayed in its original location off Meramec (the current post office and Maryville Gardens Apartment complex)
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SLU's development patterns certainly have been poor. I did not know this fact about Maryville in Dutchtown. I think Maryville would still be a small liberal arts undergraduate school had it stayed in Dutchtown rather than the small university it is now. Maryville's development along the interstate does not indicate their development would have been much better but the environment out there requires that. Dutchtown would probably be a tad more vibrant with it, and it would have kept Meremac commercial corridor alive (such a beautiful underutilized strip that I hope makes a full Cherokee type comeback one day). It probably also would have kept the white catholics around for a little while longer.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Sep 11, 2024I've thought about this too. Obviously Maryville is smaller but in the hypothetical I always think about if they would have pursued the SLU model of neighborhood demolition and landbanking vs. the Wash U model of redevelopment/rehab. The latter would've been great for Dutchtown, the former i don't know if that would be better than what's there now.GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑Sep 11, 2024My STL "what if" of the day is imagine what Dutchtown would look like if Maryville stayed in its original location off Meramec (the current post office and Maryville Gardens Apartment complex)
Out of curiosity, is Dutchtown the second most catholic neighborhood after the Hill? With the latino migration there, I have thought that it may be once again one of the most catholic neighborhoods in the city.
I am rooting for Harris Stowe. The campus has improved over recent years, as well as investment coming in the pipeline for its surroundings. With increased funding and expansion of programs, it could grow quickly.STLEnginerd wrote: ↑Sep 09, 2024would be easier to invest in Harris Stowe making it stronger and with broader appeal. Of course that would require state support.STLrainbow wrote: ↑Sep 08, 2024We need to plop down a large public research university in our city. Here are the dorm/student housing "group quarters" populations from the 2020 Census for STL City and peers Pittsburgh and Cincy.... similar total populations but you can see Pitt & UC at work here. (I also know downtown Pittsburgh benefits from Park Point Unversity, including its several residence halls.)
These numbers include off-campus housing owned by universities but not privately owned apartments that are student-oriented. Of course, there's also all the faculty and staff contributing to population as well.
STL City: 5,194 (1.7% of 301,578 total pop.)
Cincinnati: 9,456 (3.1% of 309,317)
Pittsburgh: 16,364 (5.4% of 302,971)
Ultimately, it would have been more beneficial to the region if UMSL would have chosen a site in north city back in the 1960s instead of between country clubs. It would have stabilized at least a couple neighborhoods and brought investment, which was badly needed at that time to avoid the downward spiral that had already begun. Maybe around the Sportsman Park site which was abandoned around the same time or up and around Hyde Park/College Hill.
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The big loss university wise is that when UMSL was founded UM Rolla was supposed to be rolled into it. Due to local public outcry and several state senators balking the schools remained separate entities. Rolla was seen as too close to SWMo (MSU) and engineering and research would have been best adjacent TWA, McD-Douglas, and Monsanto, SW Bell and other industry leaders here at the time.
Didn't know this. I do like the idea of a big engineering state school in stl.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Sep 11, 2024The big loss university wise is that when UMSL was founded UM Rolla was supposed to be rolled into it. Due to local public outcry and several state senators balking the schools remained separate entities. Rolla was seen as too close to SWMo (MSU) and engineering and research would have been best adjacent TWA, McD-Douglas, and Monsanto, SW Bell and other industry leaders here at the time.
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I think Both UMSL and HSSU should invest in standing up an accredited engineering program. I think I would argue that a school should be able to lend in the accreditation of other institutions in order to build up a schools program. So i would imagine borrowing professors from either MU or MS&T to create an accredited foundation as a local staff is steadily increased until the local program is self supporting.flipz wrote: ↑Sep 12, 2024Didn't know this. I do like the idea of a big engineering state school in stl.TheWayoftheArch_V2.0 wrote: ↑Sep 11, 2024The big loss university wise is that when UMSL was founded UM Rolla was supposed to be rolled into it. Due to local public outcry and several state senators balking the schools remained separate entities. Rolla was seen as too close to SWMo (MSU) and engineering and research would have been best adjacent TWA, McD-Douglas, and Monsanto, SW Bell and other industry leaders here at the time.
That said i don't think the economic benefit of the school is significantly driven by the type of degrees they offer. Just by the number of students they serve.