urbanSTL

^I am aware that the Botanical Garden charges admission for STL City/County residents. But I also remember when admission used to be $4 and free Wednesdays and Saturdays. Now it's $6 and only free 7am-11am those days. And even then, from their website: "ZMD free tickets are available onsite for walk-ups only and cannot be reserved online in advance.  ZMD resident free admission is subject to availability. Free and early morning hours do not apply on holiday or event weekends, including Labor Day weekend"

Not great IMO!

Is there a major issue of them always running out of these free tickets? Every time we've gone and utilized the ZMD free tickets, there wasn't a line and we were never turned away.

Has the Zoo said as much or just Ray Hartman?

dweebe wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2021

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2021

I think charging admission is a slippery slope. First it's tourists, then it's St. Charles County, then it's STL City/County. Also when you start charging admission for non residents that means everyone has to start carrying an ID to prove they are a resident, which I don't love, like what about kids or undocumented people? Or if you just forget your ID after going all the way over there? The openness of these institutions is one of their strengths. 

The Missouri Botanical Garden had tiered pricing and last time I checked hadn't closed due to lack of business.
https://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org ... ckets.aspx



Keep the zoo free for city and county residents and something cheap for everyone else: $6 for adults and they get two kids in free. $2 or 3 bucks for each kid after that.

I was going to say something like this. If they do go that route. $5. Something cheap that isn’t going to keep many people away but adds up for the zoo. I’d keep all kids free though.

I think one of the points the advocates of charging admission miss is that the Zoo is a "loss leader." When you are a tourism draw anyway you can charge admission and make money. When you are not . . . you need to get folks to come somehow. Our museums are our biggest draw, and the zoo foremost among them. You start charging admission and you take away one of the biggest and best tools in the "come to St. Louis" arsenal. Charging admission is pure foolishness. Sure, you get five, ten, or fifteen dollars from a few tourists. But you lose all the hotel nights and meals and Goober and Dryft fares from the folks that chose to go to San Diego or *gasp* Washington DC instead. (Since they've also got beaches and capitol buildings, and consulates and things. Things we will NEVER be able to duplicate no matter how much we spend.)

Yep. Every tourist-oriented article about St. Louis raves about the free attractions.  It really is a unique selling point, and I think we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot if we lost it. 

dweebe wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2021

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2021

^I am aware that the Botanical Garden charges admission for STL City/County residents. But I also remember when admission used to be $4 and free Wednesdays and Saturdays. Now it's $6 and only free 7am-11am those days. And even then, from their website: "ZMD free tickets are available onsite for walk-ups only and cannot be reserved online in advance.  ZMD resident free admission is subject to availability. Free and early morning hours do not apply on holiday or event weekends, including Labor Day weekend"

Not great IMO!

So let's just raise property taxes on us all and keep the zoo free?

No, they can just charge admission. BUT...  some groups get in free:

• StL City/County residents who pay into the ZMD
• Zoo members
• Those who are visiting here from out of the area; bringing their tax dollars for hotels, restaurants, and otherwise supporting the local economy

The most visits to the zoo are by locals. This will let local freeloaders (from Jefferson, St. Charles, Franklin, Madison, St. Clair, etc. Counties) pay. There doesn't seem to be an appetite for the wider metro area to support the ZMD, so this would be their contribution.

PeterXCV wrote: ↑

Oct 21, 2021

I think charging admission is a slippery slope. First it's tourists, then it's St. Charles County, then it's STL City/County. Also when you start charging admission for non residents that means everyone has to start carrying an ID to prove they are a resident, which I don't love, like what about kids or undocumented people? Or if you just forget your ID after going all the way over there? The openness of these institutions is one of their strengths. 

Completely disagree. Anyone outside of the city and county is a tourist. You don't randomly end up at the zoo and don't have an ID. The vast majority of people drive there and would be required by law to carry ID because of that. 

Lmao the uproar that would come as a result of only charging admission to people from a specific handful of counties. So petty 

When the Zoo recently bought the former Forest Park Hospital property, I really don't get where this idea that they are hard up for money is coming from. That property alone they could rent and make money off of. 

pattimagee wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2021

I don't think charging $5 for the zoo for 18+, all of a sudden, makes tourists think twice about coming to St. Louis. I think there's probably a reasonable amount that could be charged for people not living in the ZMD, that keeps it worth the small fee. Mobot could probably advise the zoo as to how they landed on their pricing structure without losing customers. 

Also, you could have the fee go solely toward capital improvements and then it becomes a benefit to everyone funding expansion/betterment/education. 

Heck, my mom and dad just took my 3-year old to the "Lazy L Safari Park" in Cape Girardeau last weekend... lol
Adult Ticket (ages 18 & over)
$9.00 each - plus sales tax

Child Ticket (ages 2 to 17)
$7.00 each - plus sales tax      

Zoo's I've recently been too:
Indianapolis's zoo:

• Adult
  $27.75
  Child (2-12)
  $23.75
  Senior (62+)
  $25.75
  Zoo Parking
  $8.00

Jacksonville Zoo

• $25 for everyone over 2

GoHarvOrGoHome wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2021

Lmao the uproar that would come as a result of only charging admission to people from a specific handful of counties. So petty 

It's not. It's charging entry, but giving free admission to a subset when they present an ID. Just like MoBOT does today (lower rates for county residents and city residents, and free entry for reciprocal garden members), except in this scenario there'd be an additional subset of free admission for out of towners.  In reality that's not that many more people, and there would be only two pricing tiers instead of three.

I’m all for charging the exurban counties and only the exurban counties. They’ve profited from externalizing the regions social, environmental, and public health costs on to the city for decades. Time to start charging them instead

Well - as I recall, when Forest Park was gifted to the city, it was a requirement that it be free.  That is why there is no admission to any of our attractions there - EXCEPT traveling exhibits or for some features.  Trying to find a source to confirm this.

STLCityMike wrote:Well - as I recall, when Forest Park was gifted to the city, it was a requirement that it be free.  That is why there is no admission to any of our attractions there - EXCEPT traveling exhibits or for some features.  Trying to find a source to confirm this.

Golf, tennis, ice skating all charge unless you’re counting those separately


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SeattleNative wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2021

STLCityMike wrote:Well - as I recall, when Forest Park was gifted to the city, it was a requirement that it be free.  That is why there is no admission to any of our attractions there - EXCEPT traveling exhibits or for some features.  Trying to find a source to confirm this.

Golf, tennis, ice skating all charge unless you’re counting those separately


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I did find this:

https://aboutstlouis.com/local/attractions/st-louis-zoo

STLCityMike wrote: ↑

Oct 22, 2021

Well - as I recall, when Forest Park was gifted to the city, it was a requirement that it be free.  That is why there is no admission to any of our attractions there - EXCEPT traveling exhibits or for some features.  Trying to find a source to confirm this.

Forest Park wasn't gifted to the city.

Forest Park wasn’t gifted, it was established by state law and the city bought out some property owners

^, ^^ & ^^^ It could be an origin story worth propagating though: old man Forest donating his expansive patrimony to the City on condition that everything within its borders is always free to the People. 

^But by "people" did he mean "the people of the city"?