In what is perhaps the most slow-motion crisis in the nation, today, STL County Exec. Stenger announced emergency evacuation plans in the event of nuclear fallout spreading over the region should the unthinkable happen: the underground fire at the Westlake Landfill finally meets up with radioactive waste buried at the site.

Anyone concerned? Meh....

Oops.

It's in Bridgeton. Some Other Place. Our municipal boundaries will protect us!

Isn't there an irony in this is that more people would have been affected if not for the added runway that in hindsight shouldn't have been built?

Isn't there an irony in this is that more people would have been affected if not for the added runway that in hindsight shouldn't have been built?

Or, in other words, "even a stopped clock is right twice a day"? Or, "government will save us"?

The best part of this whole debacle is how for years now the landfill operator and the EPA have been telling us how everything is under control/there is nothing to worry about.

But now, Koster's going after the EPA and Stenger is issuing doomsday warnings - to which no one is paying attention ('cept a few harried moms in NW StL County).

If it weren't for the nightmarish scenario being loosed on the people of St. Louis, I don't think there could be a better case study of the absolute pathological level of parochialism in St. Louis. There is a zombie force in St. Louis.

The Catholic Church has eaten all of our brains.

In their defense, I suppose you could make the case that officials were trying to avoid an all out panic:

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/ ... d3b6b.html

But, at what point do you draw the line? The smart people on this forum have probably studied the "best practices" when it comes to dealing with crisis management and public paranoia/fear. It probably boils down to some sort of algorithm balancing out the cost of calming tens of thousands of people's fears with the cost of actually "fixing" the problem - if it's even fixable.

Meanwhile, over at the assignment desk at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/, they probably moving up production for Bridgeton, MO Westlake Radioactive Fire story...

Wouldn't this be a great topic for some enterprising St. Louis area documentary filmmaker?

It is the job of the government to plan for worst case scenarios. I see this as nothing more than that.

How do you reconcile this statement:

It is the job of the government to plan for worst case scenarios. I see this as nothing more than that.

with the EPA and other officials downplaying the threat for years?

Northside Neighbor wrote:How do you reconcile this statement:

It is the job of the government to plan for worst case scenarios. I see this as nothing more than that.

with the EPA and other officials downplaying the threat for years?

My guess would be he's saying that the government is planning for something, INCASE it happens, not WHEN it happens. Expect the best, prepare for the worst.

Maybe Stenger was a Boy Scout?

The Pentagon is updating contingency plans as a result of Russia's moves in the middle east. Does that mean we're headed for Nuclear war with Russia or is it the job the Pentagon to be ready for any and all situations?
Stenger may have announced the plans yesterday but they've been in place for over a year now.

The announcement of such plans seems to be a ploy to get the federal government to do something and force its hand.

In terms of fear mongering aspects, this is still small potatoes compared to Iben Browning of 25 years ago. Does anyone here remember that one and the panic that was involved.

Mayors of neighboring municipalities were not informed of this plan until news releases this week, even though it was a year in the making?

This is government working for us? Why am I not comforted by this?

And here's what's really hard to understand...

They talk about a fallout area limited to a few neighboring municipalities.

Hmmm. How do they know that? Couldn't it go anywhere?

And what about the danger? Is it serious? Why evacuate? For a few hours? Days? Weeks? Months? Years? What about contamination to ground water/Missouri river/STL city water supplies?

What are we dealing with, folks? Has anyone really said?

Is there a fact sheet somewhere?

Who knows? Maybe it won't be that bad after all....

http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/W ... 553704.php

^ I am guessing that it is seen as more of a risk of release into atmosphere if you try to do either and its a greater risk than the status quo. One other thing to consider is that any action would need to minimize exposure to the surface for two reasons, mainly to prevent airborne release and that due to its location you need to minimize birds congregating there due to waste. The latter is due to the site being approximately 9,000 feet from the western runway at Lambert, and there are regulations relating to landfills within 2 miles of airports. There may be some issues with the FAA in these proposals due to possible risk to aviation. (I'm guessing the actual airport operations otherwise are not a concern in their findings since that's twice as far at least)

Has anyone in authority said what the potential risk of this fallout event is?

A few days and it blows into Illinois? Or long term contamination?

What is the scope of the problem/risk?

How Do You Put Out A Subterranean Fire Beneath A Mountain Of Trash?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ho ... -of-trash/

I was surprised there was no thread about this - did you watch Atomic Homefront on HBO? If yes, what did you think?

This seems not good:

FLORISSANT, Mo. — There is significant radioactive contamination at an elementary school in suburban St. Louis where nuclear weapons were produced during World War II, according to a new report by environmental investigation consultants.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/17/11293993 ... ary-school

For the life of me I can not understand why the Feds are so reluctant to clean up this mess. Also do not understand why it doesn't garner more attention from the nation press  

It'll be on the NBC Nightly News tonight.

beer city wrote: ↑

Oct 17, 2022

For the life of me I can not understand why the Feds are so reluctant to clean up this mess. Also do not understand why it doesn't garner more attention from the nation press  

I think the feds are on the site, but they don't want to dig because they're concerned opening the landfill allow the low-grade fire in the adjacent site to go hot and start blowing radioactive smoke and ash. They had been pumping water in to cool the fire, but maybe that has been a part of the problem itself. The water gets in, gets contaminated, and leaks back out? I suspect it's a bear of a problem, and the Feds want the private industries that dumped there to pitch in on the cleanup. Not all the waste is Manhattan Project related. Some of the radioactives are later medical waste, I believe. It's just a damn mess. I feel like we're all too often the dumping ground for the entire country's problems. Or worse yet, guinea pigs.

Anyway, google around some. It's been pretty heavily reported in the past. I'm just lazily repeating half-remembered stuff from potentially a decade ago or more.

It's basically a subsurface smoldering.  The chemical processes of the decomposition creates the reaction and heat as I understand it.  Cold water is pumped in to cool it, but yes, it's call leachate and has to be sent to a tank and treated.

I'm not sure what the real fix is, unfortunately.  But if you open this up to more air access, it would likely create a proper fire.

This was on the CBS national radio news report this morning. All this lead around is terrifying let alone radioactive lead.