the hip roof treatments in the center are what's making me think 'suburbs'
Exactly. What in the world are they thinking. Even gaslight square avoided such an architectural faux-pas.
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Exactly. What in the world are they thinking. Even gaslight square avoided such an architectural faux-pas.
DeBaliviere wrote:^
And a little east. The corner of Lindell and Vandeventer deserves something better than a Rally's (even though I used to eat there all the time).
It makes for a good post-Moolah snack yet I would redirect myself to Del-Taco instead for a better development. 3-4 AM in the Del-Taco drive through one can see drunken college kids doing all kinds of things.
Anyway, this is project is hot. The square footage range is nice too. Maybe they will be slightly affordable to the college graduate.
Doug wrote:Anyway, this is project is hot. The square footage range is nice too. Maybe they will be slightly affordable to the college graduate.
Affordable? On Lindell?
I think it's great to see this development--and to realize that the Kingshighway-to-Grand stretch of Lindell will soon be completely revitalized and built out. But I also think this project will just extend high prices on Lindell eastward from Boyle.
Tysalpha wrote:Doug wrote:Anyway, this is project is hot. The square footage range is nice too. Maybe they will be slightly affordable to the college graduate.
Affordable? On Lindell?
I think it's great to see this development--and to realize that the Kingshighway-to-Grand stretch of Lindell will soon be completely revitalized and built out. But I also think this project will just extend high prices on Lindell eastward from Boyle.
Slightly!
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High prices are not entirely a bad thing since the wealthiest 1% has grown in the US. I remember reading that they have divided into two camps, the rich and super rich with the first growing ever larger. Plus money attracts money. Building high end housing on Lindell attracts similar housing with a slightly lower cost on surrounding streets. Think West County.
The wealthy live along the Ladue-Clayton-Litzinger east-west corridor. The areas north and south are the most desirable and built-up for the upper middle class and subsequent affluent classes. The wealthy anchor those areas where Manchester, Ballwin, and north Chesterfield should resemble Ferguson and Florissant or Bridgeton and Maryland Heights. They do not because of the higher end. Think Clayton verse going north to University City to Vinita Terrace or south from Clayton to Richmond Height to Maplewood to Shrewsberry.
Wealth concentration and spatial impact on the market.
The wealthy live along the Ladue-Clayton-Litzinger east-west corridor. The areas north and south are the most desirable and built-up for the upper middle class and subsequent affluent classes. The wealthy anchor those areas where Manchester, Ballwin, and north Chesterfield should resemble Ferguson and Florissant or Bridgeton and Maryland Heights. They do not because of the higher end. Think Clayton verse going north to University City to Vinita Terrace or south from Clayton to Richmond Height to Maplewood to Shrewsberry.
Wealth concentration and spatial impact on the market.
Nice.
Overall a nice looking project. It does seem a bit mid-county in its design, but there was a huge need for street level retail on this stretch to start making this section of the city a little more pedestrian friendly, especially considering the University so nearby.
Overall a nice looking project. It does seem a bit mid-county in its design, but there was a huge need for street level retail on this stretch to start making this section of the city a little more pedestrian friendly, especially considering the University so nearby.
I think this project would have looked nice perhaps on South Grand. I agree with the others who commented on the hip roof. I wish this project would have had a couple more floors and a more modern design...something like the Crescent in Clayton, or even more cutting edge than that. To me, this building says 'infill in a quieter urban neighborhood' rather than 'cosmopolitan, sophisticated, exciting', which the CWE is.
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^ This isn't really in the CWE, but I agree with your views on the building. It may even be more out of shape at its close-to-Midtown location where there's the contemporary art museum.
^Woops...I always thought the beggining of the CWE was at Vanderventer...? What is the eastern boundary of the CWE?
Yes, and I agree in Midtown it's likely even more out of place for the same reasons. Really, anywhere in the central corridor I would hope more modern (and urban) architecture would apply, and forget the infill.
Yes, and I agree in Midtown it's likely even more out of place for the same reasons. Really, anywhere in the central corridor I would hope more modern (and urban) architecture would apply, and forget the infill.
Marmar wrote:^Woops...I always thought the beggining of the CWE was at Vanderventer...? What is the eastern boundary of the CWE?
Boyle, traditionally. (Boyle / Delmar / Skinker / Clayton being the boundaries, although real estate marketing will say anything within 5 blocks east or north of there as "CWE")
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Tysalpha wrote:Marmar wrote:^Woops...I always thought the beggining of the CWE was at Vanderventer...? What is the eastern boundary of the CWE?
Boyle, traditionally. (Boyle / Delmar / Skinker / Clayton being the boundaries, although real estate marketing will say anything within 5 blocks east or north of there as "CWE")
I always considered Kingshighway to be the western edge.
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The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Tysalpha wrote:Marmar wrote:^Woops...I always thought the beggining of the CWE was at Vanderventer...? What is the eastern boundary of the CWE?
Boyle, traditionally. (Boyle / Delmar / Skinker / Clayton being the boundaries, although real estate marketing will say anything within 5 blocks east or north of there as "CWE")
I always considered Kingshighway to be the western edge.
Technically, Union is the western edge, where DeBaliviere Place starts. DeBaliviere Place goes from Union to DeBaliviere, and Skinker DeBaliviere - as its name indicates - is the area between Skinker and DeBaliviere.
DeBaliviere wrote:The Central Scrutinizer wrote:Tysalpha wrote:
Boyle, traditionally. (Boyle / Delmar / Skinker / Clayton being the boundaries, although real estate marketing will say anything within 5 blocks east or north of there as "CWE")
I always considered Kingshighway to be the western edge.
Technically, Union is the western edge, where DeBaliviere Place starts. DeBaliviere Place goes from Union to DeBaliviere, and Skinker DeBaliviere - as its name indicates - is the area between Skinker and DeBaliviere.
Hmm. I always thought of the DeBaliviere neighborhoods as part of the CWE... it is the central west END (city limits), after all.
And DeBaliviere to Skinker would be a pretty small neighborhood; IMHO that's more like a subdivision. But if it's Union, then it's Union.Well, now wait. There's the West End, and the Central West End. When I first started hanging around in the CWE (73-74) what was considered the CWE was from Delmar south to Forest Park Blvd., Kingshighway east to...I thought it was Vaneventer, but now that I think of it, it could have been Newstead. But I'm not really sure about that.
One thing I 'm pretty sure about is the CWE's boundaries were set in 1958 because it was the center of the West End. I guess the boundaries may have changed. Then, some people think that all the West End is the Central West End.
We need someone who knows something official to straighten us out on this...
One thing I 'm pretty sure about is the CWE's boundaries were set in 1958 because it was the center of the West End. I guess the boundaries may have changed. Then, some people think that all the West End is the Central West End.
We need someone who knows something official to straighten us out on this...
I only did a quick search and couldn't find it, but wasn't there a neighborhood map floating around the forum a month or two ago?
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Tysalpha wrote:Hmm. I always thought of the DeBaliviere neighborhoods as part of the CWE... it is the central west END (city limits), after all.
I'm just going by the city's neighborhood map!
DeBaliviere wrote:Tysalpha wrote:Hmm. I always thought of the DeBaliviere neighborhoods as part of the CWE... it is the central west END (city limits), after all.
I'm just going by the city's neighborhood map!
Which is just as unnecessarily and arbitrarily fragmented as the St. Louis County map!
((Ok, ok. I know that's another discussion...))
Marmar wrote:Well, now wait. There's the West End, and the Central West End. When I first started hanging around in the CWE (73-74) what was considered the CWE was from Delmar south to Forest Park Blvd., Kingshighway east to...I thought it was Vaneventer, but now that I think of it, it could have been Newstead....
Oh! I interpreted it as central-west end, not central west-end. Since almost all "ends" have a westward-facing boundary in St. Louis, this made sense to me.
But of course these are just names and I shouldn't expect them to follow my--or ANY other--logic. Kind of like "the Grove" now -- love the area, but HATE the name.
Drove by this today, and was surprised to see them building. looks like it is close to the street, which will be good and hopefully set a precedent for the surrounding development
Yep, out of the ground as of last week. And the building is indeed right up to the sidewalk.
^ Aww. I kind of like the "Lindell setback." 
It gives the street a feeling of grandeur--like the Champs-Elises or something. But I guess as long as the setback is preserved west of Sarah I'm ok. 
It gives the street a feeling of grandeur--like the Champs-Elises or something. But I guess as long as the setback is preserved west of Sarah I'm ok. The Lindell setback is interrupted there with the Lindell Marketplace anyway. But I agree about liking the setback.
^ Ah, true. I try to erase that little blob of suburbia from my vision of Lindell.
