It would also help if the Illinois side could find a way to start growing also. If only that it will help pull the population center more towards downtown. When I drive over there sometimes is amazes me we have large swaths of open land/farmland fairly close to our downtown. Imagine if some of that could be built out. Now I know some of it is in a floodplain and probably shouldn't be developed but for people wanting more space you can get it there and be 10-15 minutes from downtown instead of 45-60+ minutes from downtown way out west. So I have always wondered what it would take to get more momentum on the Illinois side.soulardx wrote: ↑2:22 PM - Oct 16To reiterate my fundamental point that got this latest cat right rolling, I think many of the hardcore city folks need to evolve their thinking for the betterment of the region.
I was a hardcore city guy from a for a long time. (I've been posting on this forum so long, I'm sure you can find posts in which I bemoan Clayton for poaching....) I still live in the city, still own property in the city, run my business from the city, spend nearly all my $ in the city. I'm city through and through,
But, STL as a place will live and die with *regional* success not *just* DT STL success.
In 2026 America, urbanists are distinct minority. The vast majority of Americans want big yards and big houses and a SUV. The vast majority of Americans do not want to live in Manhattan. They want a place like suburban/exurban Dallas or Houston or Tampa. Population growth numbers prove it.
As such, if we are true urbanists and not just STL CITY ONLY urbanists, DT Clayton (a place legitimately in our urban core; not in Wentzville) needs to be seen a regional asset. Something that makes STL - as a region - more attractive to businesses who want to stay/move to the region.
All it would take to get the ball rolling IMO is some investment into DTESTL
Not like my opinion matters.. I happen to like Clayton it feels new & clean so I view it as an asset however I also view it as Downtown’s nemesis. I honestly don’t think Downtown St.Louis would be in the shape that it’s in if there wasn’t a Clayton constantly poaching from it & realistically Clayton Westport chesterfield etc. are all reasons Downtown St.Louis continues to flounder… This is why St.Louis city & county need to be one & not two separate governments with all the infighting that’s been going on for over a century… I don’t know the answers but St.Louis city leaders have allowed the city to drop so far the only way now is to go up. We may never see a United St.Louis city & county in our lifetime but maybe just maybe others that are much younger & live here will .. All I can say is St.Louis city leaders gave business’s a reason to move away from downtown maybe now is the time to give them reasons to come back downtown…. I can say I’m thoroughly grateful for Clayton cause think if Clayton wasn’t an option they’d likely be in Kansas City. Just my little two cents.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Zero chance historically or institutionally that would have put these companies in KC over STL.
Austin? Nashvegas? Maybe. KC should be applauded for leading neo-urbanism on the high plains. They are not a corporate juggernaut, nor are they attracting large firms.
Austin? Nashvegas? Maybe. KC should be applauded for leading neo-urbanism on the high plains. They are not a corporate juggernaut, nor are they attracting large firms.
If not for Clayton, they probably would have been split between other locations in the county and downtown. Very unlikely many that moved to Clayton would have left the MSA entirely. Additionally, if Clayton didn't exist, there would have been far more business investment downtown to keep it from declining the way it did.
The city could only do so much with little business support, iffy state support, and the federal government incentivizing people to move as far out as they could for the latter half of the 20th century.
Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk
The city could only do so much with little business support, iffy state support, and the federal government incentivizing people to move as far out as they could for the latter half of the 20th century.
Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk
Denis making things happen:
"This tour reframes Downtown St. Louis’ narrative, one group walk at a time.
Denis Beganovic has logged thousands of miles walking downtown. Now he’s letting others see what he sees with a new twice-monthly walk."
https://www.stlmag.com/business/tour-reframes-downtown-st-louis-narrative-one-group-walk-at-a-time/?utm_campaign=St.%20Louis%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--Jq8y4-RF01Bn-PGDR2oQKWeDrgANI6-Xe51dWWQ4Xd09uZLCdZ-BFirTNSHds_uCaO1SFyJKvBtVysJ3DCEhjZ6ETKPW599NiKIHLPg8Nzds6amA&_hsmi=446111117&utm_content=446111117&utm_source=hs_email
"This tour reframes Downtown St. Louis’ narrative, one group walk at a time.
Denis Beganovic has logged thousands of miles walking downtown. Now he’s letting others see what he sees with a new twice-monthly walk."
https://www.stlmag.com/business/tour-reframes-downtown-st-louis-narrative-one-group-walk-at-a-time/?utm_campaign=St.%20Louis%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--Jq8y4-RF01Bn-PGDR2oQKWeDrgANI6-Xe51dWWQ4Xd09uZLCdZ-BFirTNSHds_uCaO1SFyJKvBtVysJ3DCEhjZ6ETKPW599NiKIHLPg8Nzds6amA&_hsmi=446111117&utm_content=446111117&utm_source=hs_email
For all those bullsh*t Downtown groups we have, Downtown Denis is the only one doing true public and media relations on the positives in DT STL.framer wrote: ↑1:07 PM - Oct 27Denis making things happen:
"This tour reframes Downtown St. Louis’ narrative, one group walk at a time.
Denis Beganovic has logged thousands of miles walking downtown. Now he’s letting others see what he sees with a new twice-monthly walk."
https://www.stlmag.com/business/tour-reframes-downtown-st-louis-narrative-one-group-walk-at-a-time/?utm_campaign=St.%20Louis%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--Jq8y4-RF01Bn-PGDR2oQKWeDrgANI6-Xe51dWWQ4Xd09uZLCdZ-BFirTNSHds_uCaO1SFyJKvBtVysJ3DCEhjZ6ETKPW599NiKIHLPg8Nzds6amA&_hsmi=446111117&utm_content=446111117&utm_source=hs_email
Despite my criticism of DT STL, I appreciate and respect what Denis is doing here.
(I also stand by that *someone* is paying Denis for this but, even if so, I don't care. At all. It's money well spent. LOL)
dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑1:17 PM - Oct 27Just my normal Saturday morning walk that now 20-35 people join
db should give up his day job and just take this around the city giving tours.addxb2 wrote: ↑2:50 AM - Oct 28Screenshot 2026-10-27 at 9.50.05 PM.pnghttps://www.gsaauctions.gov/auctions/preview/381363dbInSouthCity wrote: ↑1:17 PM - Oct 27Just my normal Saturday morning walk that now 20-35 people join
^ “The Washington Ave Trolley by Denis. He’ll get you to Laclede’s Landing. Not faster than walking, but he’ll tell you some gossip.”
Picking up the Old Courthouse and moving it a couple block west is likely going to be expensive...
Interesting. Although that is just a parking garage with a large atrium on the top, better then current vacancy I guess. The base of Hilton looks different too. Is this a full property redevelopment?
Its fake AI slopaddxb2 wrote:Interesting. Although that is just a parking garage with a large atrium on the top, better then current vacancy I guess. The base of Hilton looks different too. Is this a full property redevelopment?
Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk
Saw something on LinkedIn from Dustin Allison about the Keiner garages. Assume this is a (bad/AI slop) vision of what one of them could be. It's better than nothing but do we really need another event space downtown? Feels like shuffling more deck chairs...
This is the old Mike Shannon’s site next to the Hiltonjtlq53 wrote:Saw something on LinkedIn from Dustin Allison about the Keiner garages. Assume this is a (bad/AI slop) vision of what one of them could be. It's better than nothing but do we really need another event space downtown? Feels like shuffling more deck chairs...
You just described Brian McGowan's black bus we always took from Flannery's to ballgames...addxb2 wrote: ↑3:30 PM - Oct 28^ “The Washington Ave Trolley by Denis. He’ll get you to Laclede’s Landing. Not faster than walking, but he’ll tell you some gossip.”
Oh god... Flannery's... there's a memory I don't wish to have.. lol. Place was garbageeeeee.
I checked out the new Food Hall and the Dorsa Market today. Two nice additions to Downtown's lineup. Food Hall is set up well for larger crowds and will benefit from conventions, Dorsa is simple, but offers some quick pick up items that act as a bridge in between grocery store visits. I definitely think more of these family-friendly, neighborhood amenities will start showing up more and more and, hopefully/maybe, work to change perceptions. The remaining vacant buildings will always hurt perceptions a little bit, but other things are improving elsewhere. Slow and steady.
The nice thing about the food hall business model is that most of the stands can be run with as few as 1-2 employees during slow periods with flexibility to staff up during events. Most of the tenants are also existing businesses elsewhere in the region which allows them to shift workers between locations as needed.
Downtown should be recruiting more locations of existing concepts for this exact reason. Having another location gives staffing flexibility to weather the boom and bust nature of downtown. Cash in on the big crowds and have the ability to mothball somewhat during slow days.
Downtown should be recruiting more locations of existing concepts for this exact reason. Having another location gives staffing flexibility to weather the boom and bust nature of downtown. Cash in on the big crowds and have the ability to mothball somewhat during slow days.