urbanSTL

I just feel like being located at a location with guaranteed customers, like at the base of an office buildings, apartment building, or along Washington would have provided a way stronger customer base. This part of downtown just feels removed from other parts. This is easily the part ive frequented the least.

Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk

StlAlex wrote: ↑

1:43 AM - Sep 15

Ozzy's Market says they are closing on Saturday.

Interesting concept that would have probably had a better shot in a better part of downtown.

Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk

Went about a year ago - the sandwich was great but I was one of two people in there at noon on a weekday - Probably should have been about 2 blocks south or 6 blocks east 

That project has killed the pedestrian access to so much of the city. I'm a strong supporter of the connector and projects like it, but we can't let construction just stop accessibility and harm neighborhoods for months and months (going on a year plus)

When it was announced I thought of it as a place where you could come, have some drinks, and get a good sandwich. And the sandwiches really were good. But they didn't get a liquor license until very late. I may have misheard or misunderstood the drink part and it being a spot where you could sit down and try different drinks, when it was really more beer to go, or that may have been a decision when they got the LL and knew they were closing.
Then a big 20th Street construction project started right around when they opened. It sat in front of their door for most of this year because of waterline issues and replacement parts.
For a market, it was also sparsely stocked. The space felt too empty, almost too large. With those tall ceilings, it could have been filled out much more, and it felt like an unfinished place.
The tenant that had the most success there was Bootleggin BBQ, before they moved to Tower Grove and eventually to Illinois. It was a neighborhood bar where you ran into people. I think the spot will do well eventually, once AHM finishes building out the rest of their apartments in that area and it should probably be a neighborhood bar again with decent bar food
Nevertheless, good on them for trying and the sandwiches were really good.

Need more places that do a good Chopped Cheese. They had a good one.

TalkinDev wrote: ↑

5:46 PM - Sep 21

Need more places that do a good Chopped Cheese. They had a good one.

Central State inside 2nd Shift had a pretty solid one (in my undereducated opinion).  And then the revolving door of kitchen operators hit them.  It's a bummer.

Post-morning coffee walk assessment. Downtown St. Louis has a really long way to go.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

2:24 PM - Sep 26

Post-morning coffee walk assessment. Downtown St. Louis has a really long way to go.

Please share.  I had similar thoughts when I went for a walk DT a couple of weeks ago.

Just felt deserted and the people we did see weren’t doing well, some screaming or moving aggressively. Litter on every sidewalk and most of the Gateway Mall. A single Downtown (idk which org) worker carelessly sweeping Tucker with a small movie theater broom. Unpolished landscaping on most buildings. Trash cans are either overflowing or broken. I don’t know where to start on retail vacancies.

The traffic lights are terrible for drivers and pedestrians. Jaywalked most intersections because the streets were empty and the lights weren’t timed or responsive. Olive, Tucker, Market should be 1/3 the width they are today. Washington Ave needs a street cleaner from New Orleans.

I’ve walked away feeling better on past visits. I’ve walked away feeling worse on past visits. This visit I walked away asking… “Does anyone (other than Denis) care?”

I know it varies by day/time but 9am Saturday on a beautiful fall day should be a good time.

addxb2 wrote: ↑

3:03 PM - Sep 26

Just felt deserted and the people we did see weren’t doing well, some screaming or moving aggressively. Litter on every sidewalk and most of the Gateway Mall. A single Downtown (idk which org) worker carelessly sweeping Tucker with a small movie theater broom. Unpolished landscaping on most buildings. Trash cans are either overflowing or broken. I don’t know where to start on retail vacancies.

I’ve walked away feeling better on past visits. I’ve walked away feeling worse on past visits. This visit I walk away asking… “does anyone (other than Denis) care?”

We had a very similar feeling after leaving downtown. Specifically, around the intersection near the Schnucks market and the Mark Twain Hotel, there were fairly large groups gathered on both corners, with some people yelling at passersby and creating an uncomfortable atmosphere. We also noticed several people who appeared to be passed out on the sidewalk. This was in the middle of the afternoon on a weekday. 

Saturday morning before 10 AM on a weekend with no major events and certainty none on a Saturday morning is probably the best time to judge.

For my part, I was downtown Wednesday evening and all day Thursday, and it was absolutely popping. Tons of people basically everywhere, restaurants were packed, Metro was very busy, foot traffic was amazing.

But I'm happy you're here, saying what people who actually live here have been saying and advocating for, and adjudicating on a Saturday morning.

Sent from my SM-S936U using Tapatalk

Also, Union Station is still severely under-leveraged. City should be asking them what they need every week to keep growing. Shines just as bright as the Arch (metaphorically) and could still go so much further in creating an exciting image for STL. Aloe Plaza should be so much more for example. The fact that Build-a-bear hasn’t opened a massive flagship experience is beyond confusing. It’s mid.

addxb2 wrote:Just felt deserted and the people we did see weren’t doing well, some screaming or moving aggressively. Litter on every sidewalk and most of the Gateway Mall. A single Downtown (idk which org) worker carelessly sweeping Tucker with a small movie theater broom. Unpolished landscaping on most buildings. Trash cans are either overflowing or broken. I don’t know where to start on retail vacancies.

The traffic lights are terrible for drivers and pedestrians. Jaywalked most intersections because the streets were empty and the lights weren’t timed or responsive. Olive, Tucker, Market should be 1/3 the width they are today. Washington Ave needs a street cleaner from New Orleans.

I’ve walked away feeling better on past visits. I’ve walked away feeling worse on past visits. This visit I walked away asking… “Does anyone (other than Denis) care?”

I know it varies by day/time but 9am Saturday on a beautiful fall day should be a good time.

Very sad to hear that. Especially with it being the first weekend with fall temperatures, downtown should be packed on a Saturday morning with people grabbing coffee/breakfast and walking around.

Downtown just isn’t going to get to where we want it unless our own Dan Gilbert steps in and makes it happen. There are some development projects to be excited about, but we have so much further to go that I don’t see it happening without a billionaire that doesn’t care about losing some money.

Detroit recast its narrative behind a billionaire savior. Does St. Louis have one of its own?
https://archive.ph/CUXPC

Step 1 is reestablishing a clean team. A downtown the geographic size of STLs probably needs 25 to 50 full-time employees working every morning from 5-7am. A few trucks emptying trash cans, a few trucks spraying down and cleaning streets, landscaping, picking up litter. It should look like the hour before Disney World opens the park between Jefferson and the River, 365 days a year. 

I can justify the complicated issues of homelessness, retail/office vacancy, and traffic maintenance.  I can't look past having to weave  my dog through fast food containers left on the sidewalk or condom wrappers and discarded liquor bottles in the park. Like I said, it just gives the impression that no one cares. So why should I?

I hate coming on here to rant about it but I don't have many other people to talk about this perspective with. Most people don't understand why I care enough to get worked up. Complaining on Reddit/Twitter just draws out those who feed on STL decay. I offer it here to a caring and knowledgable group who wants better. 

addxb2 wrote: ↑

6:20 PM - Sep 26

Step 1 is reestablishing a clean team. A downtown the geographic size of STLs probably needs 25 to 50 full-time employees working every morning from 5-7am. A few trucks emptying trash cans, a few trucks spraying down and cleaning streets, landscaping, picking up litter. It should look like the hour before Disney World opens the park between Jefferson and the River, 365 days a year. 

I can justify the complicated issues of homelessness, retail/office vacancy, and traffic maintenance.  I can't look past having to weave  my dog through fast food containers left on the sidewalk or condom wrappers and discarded liquor bottles in the park. Like I said, it just gives the impression that no one cares. So why should I?

I hate coming on here to rant about it but I don't have many other people to talk about this perspective with. Most people don't understand why I care enough to get worked up. Complaining on Reddit/Twitter just draws out those who feed on STL decay. I offer it here to a caring and knowledgable group who wants better. 

A clean team would go a long way.  Chicago and Minneapolis downtowns look great.  Minneapolis specifically has 15-20 "cleaning ambassadors" that pickup trash, power wash, sweep, etc everyday from 6am - 2pm.  

STLAPTS wrote:

addxb2 wrote: ↑

6:20 PM - Sep 26

Step 1 is reestablishing a clean team. A downtown the geographic size of STLs probably needs 25 to 50 full-time employees working every morning from 5-7am. A few trucks emptying trash cans, a few trucks spraying down and cleaning streets, landscaping, picking up litter. It should look like the hour before Disney World opens the park between Jefferson and the River, 365 days a year. 

I can justify the complicated issues of homelessness, retail/office vacancy, and traffic maintenance.  I can't look past having to weave  my dog through fast food containers left on the sidewalk or condom wrappers and discarded liquor bottles in the park. Like I said, it just gives the impression that no one cares. So why should I?

I hate coming on here to rant about it but I don't have many other people to talk about this perspective with. Most people don't understand why I care enough to get worked up. Complaining on Reddit/Twitter just draws out those who feed on STL decay. I offer it here to a caring and knowledgable group who wants better. 

A clean team would go a long way.  Chicago and Minneapolis downtowns look great.  Minneapolis specifically has 15-20 "cleaning ambassadors" that pickup trash, power wash, sweep, etc everyday from 6am - 2pm.  

The fact that our local leadership rolled out a “downtown ambassador” team that was a glorified safety patrol instead of an actual clean team is so emblematic of Downtown’s problems.

Downtown Clean Team (4-6) from the CID sweeps 12 hours a day 365. The CID also pays a professional landscape company to maintain all the plantings.   The clean team has existed as long as the CID has, it never went away.  

yesterday at 9;00 i had 27 people show up at cobblestone on the Landing just to get coffee and walk around. a photographer had 67 people show up at new Coffee Stamp and they walked around taking photos.   Find your thing and do it downtown.  hotel owners/developers have never felt better about the rest of the decade here

All of that and my experience can be true. I walked from Union Station to Coffee Stamp and back at 9:15.

Agreed. The cleanup team seems to be poorly organized and managed. If there are 15–20 people on the crew who just swwep, they should be broken into small teams with specific responsibilities.

For example:

• A 1–2 person crew driving around on a Gator, collecting trash and taking it to a central location.
• A couple of crews with leaf blowers handling sidewalks, curbs, parking lots, and other paved areas.
• A couple of crews focused specifically on sweeping and picking up debris.
• A couple of crews dedicated to power washing.
• The remaining crew members assigned to specific areas or cleanup tasks as needed.

just no need for a 15-20 person crew

City trash picks up and empties all trashcans each morning. 
all green spaces have someone already keeping them up- citygarden, kiener plaza and forestry does rest of the gateway mall 

8500 sqft retail at 2025 Olive (across from Energizer) has a pending lease. Rooftop opportunity. 
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/2025-Olive-St-Saint-Louis-MO/26016545/

nice^

The Kimpton hotel site is very active. Looks like foundation pours are happening this week. 

Also, the Jefferson Ave. parking lot south of MSD's HQ is getting ripped up. This is adjacent to the former MO state HQ. 

700 S. Broadway (BB's Jazz Bar) is under contract. 

addxb2 wrote: ↑

9:52 PM - Sep 28

700 S. Broadway (BB's Jazz Bar) is under contract. 
Screenshot 2026-09-28 at 4.51.29 PM.png

I think I saw a Facebook post that Broadway Oyster Bar is buying it.