Didn't they have the financing and incentives in place before the BOA (Green) decided to rehash? At least according to the neighborhood group and alder this would be under construction had the City not tried to renegotiate it's own incentive score card post-demo.
No.addxb2 wrote:Didn't they have the financing and incentives in place before the BOA (Green) decided to rehash? At least according to the neighborhood group and alder this would be under construction had the City not tried to renegotiate it's own incentive score card post-demo.
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Why does a project across the street from Forest Park and adjacent to not one, but two of the hottest neighborhoods in town require incentives?addxb2 wrote: ↑6:49 PM - 5 days agoDidn't they have the financing and incentives in place before the BOA (Green) decided to rehash? At least according to the neighborhood group and alder this would be under construction had the City not tried to renegotiate it's own incentive score card post-demo.
Two things can be true
Hot neighborhood by Forest Park
Rents won't cover costs
Hot neighborhood by Forest Park
Rents won't cover costs
Rents don't cover construction costs. Construction costs here are similar to Chicago. As a result, incentives are required for developers to build here at scale.symphonicpoet wrote: ↑5:08 AM - 4 days agoWhy does a project across the street from Forest Park and adjacent to not one, but two of the hottest neighborhoods in town require incentiveaddxb2 wrote: ↑6:49 PM - 5 days agoDidn't they have the financing and incentives in place before the BOA (Green) decided to rehash? At least according to the neighborhood group and alder this would be under construction had the City not tried to renegotiate it's own incentive score card post-demo.
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Why does chesterfield mall site require $400,000,000 in incentives?symphonicpoet wrote: ↑5:08 AM - 4 days agoWhy does a project across the street from Forest Park and adjacent to not one, but two of the hottest neighborhoods in town require incentives?addxb2 wrote: ↑6:49 PM - 5 days agoDidn't they have the financing and incentives in place before the BOA (Green) decided to rehash? At least according to the neighborhood group and alder this would be under construction had the City not tried to renegotiate it's own incentive score card post-demo.
The hottest neighborhood in STL has a lower return rate than a mediocre neighborhood in most other regions. STL can be choosy about incentives but outside money isn’t going to flow. They’ll always have a better place to put their money. Even the building boom of 2016-2019 relied heavily on local investors who had dedication to the region. Many of those businesses didn’t survive the pandemic and the ones that did are more conservative. Just my two cents.symphonicpoet wrote:Why does a project across the street from Forest Park and adjacent to not one, but two of the hottest neighborhoods in town require incentives?addxb2 wrote: ↑6:49 PM - 5 days agoDidn't they have the financing and incentives in place before the BOA (Green) decided to rehash? At least according to the neighborhood group and alder this would be under construction had the City not tried to renegotiate it's own incentive score card post-demo.
Their cost per unit was also way way higher than others, so they didn't help themselves at all there.
Albion West End: $475k/unit, 75% tax break across 10 years, $1.3 million community benefit contribution.
Iris: $293k/unit, sales tax break, Cortex TIF benefits, $250k affordable housing contribution, 10% affordable.
Rollick: $324k/unit, 90% tax break across 10 years, 10% affordable.
North Point: $366k/unit, 85% tax break across 10 years, no community benefit contribution or affordable housing.
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Albion West End: $475k/unit, 75% tax break across 10 years, $1.3 million community benefit contribution.
Iris: $293k/unit, sales tax break, Cortex TIF benefits, $250k affordable housing contribution, 10% affordable.
Rollick: $324k/unit, 90% tax break across 10 years, 10% affordable.
North Point: $366k/unit, 85% tax break across 10 years, no community benefit contribution or affordable housing.
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These are just hard construction cost?StlAlex wrote: ↑6:20 PM - 4 days agoTheir cost per unit was also way way higher than others, so they didn't help themselves at all there.
Albion West End: $475k/unit, 75% tax break across 10 years, $1.3 million community benefit contribution.
Iris: $293k/unit, sales tax break, Cortex TIF benefits, $250k affordable housing contribution, 10% affordable.
Rollick: $324k/unit, 90% tax break across 10 years, 10% affordable.
North Point: $366k/unit, 85% tax break across 10 years, no community benefit contribution or affordable housing.
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I'd be on board with incentives for historic preservation. If there's a below-market rent component that's fine too. But for market rate rent? If you can't build it for a rent that will cover construction costs you shouldn't be building it. At some point this just becomes ridiculous.
Look at the analysis that SLDC does on these projects. The tax abatement gets the project off the ground which provides immediate tax benefits (for SLPS and the city) and new residential units with ~10x more tax benefits in 10 years after the abatement expires. If you "shouldn't be building it" then those new tax benefits are never generated.
I'll also point out that these tax abatements partially are covering the developer's cost of adding affordable housing, higher costs of wage and contracting requirements, and any community benefits agreements. So essentially, the city is shifting funding from SLPS to these other requirements. Without these additional requirements the level of tax abatement could be reduced. CBAs and Affordable Housing Units look good on paper, and the Alderman can claim a win, but in reality the bill is going to SLPS.
I'll also point out that these tax abatements partially are covering the developer's cost of adding affordable housing, higher costs of wage and contracting requirements, and any community benefits agreements. So essentially, the city is shifting funding from SLPS to these other requirements. Without these additional requirements the level of tax abatement could be reduced. CBAs and Affordable Housing Units look good on paper, and the Alderman can claim a win, but in reality the bill is going to SLPS.
SLPS is not massively underfunded. Somehow Rockwood manages a larger school district with less revenue. SLPS is horribly inefficient and there is corruption at play too. No one should lose any sleep over tax breaks for affordable housing.
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In no way am I trying to cape for tax abatements or for unnecessary developer incentives but isn't it true that 10% would immediately go into the city's coffers, in addition to the however many units being occupied with residents whose tax dollars go into the city rather than spending/living in Shrewsbury or U City or wherever? Then that gets better in time? And then the argument suggests this proceeds some investment begetting more investment, etc.?
Happy to be schooled on this, I feel like this argument is more vibes-based than data based.
Happy to be schooled on this, I feel like this argument is more vibes-based than data based.
I don't think PeterXCV has an issue with abatement given the development has requirements that they either donate to tbe affordable housing trust or reserve 10% of their units for affordable housing during the duration of the abatement.jtlq53 wrote:In no way am I trying to cape for tax abatements or for unnecessary developer incentives but isn't it true that 10% would immediately go into the city's coffers, in addition to the however many units being occupied with residents whose tax dollars go into the city rather than spending/living in Shrewsbury or U City or wherever? Then that gets better in time? And then the argument suggests this proceeds some investment begetting more investment, etc.?
Happy to be schooled on this, I feel like this argument is more vibes-based than data based.
Correct me if I'm wrong @PeterXCV
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