urbanSTL

gary kreie wrote: ↑

11:46 PM - Apr 15

East and West Berlin merged.  I think we can figure out water.  


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Obviously it can be done. I suppose infrastructure and services is a cart before the horse. A dissolution of St. Louis City County and entrance as a municipality into St. Louis County is one thing, annexation of incorporated areas is another.

Ultimately since I am assuming residents of unincorporated areas largely would like to keep it that way, an involuntary City led annexation would have to clear a court approval and then require a vote in both the City and the annexed area to pass a simple majority, and if the annexed area does not pass it would then have to pass a 2/3 supermajority in a second attempt. Even if all of that passed it would be a years long process for the city to gain areas of low-density, poorly planned land and all of its infrastructural issues and irregularities. For example, a city that has ambitions of being a walkable and equitable place would now have large swaths of area with no sidewalks and abysmal land use it would have to contend with. 

^^Also would have to make it past the St. Louis County Boundary Commission which is written into state law. Good luck with that.

kg2024 wrote: ↑

2:56 PM - Apr 16

gary kreie wrote: ↑

11:46 PM - Apr 15

East and West Berlin merged.  I think we can figure out water.  


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Obviously it can be done. I suppose infrastructure and services is a cart before the horse. A dissolution of St. Louis City County and entrance as a municipality into St. Louis County is one thing, annexation of incorporated areas is another.

Ultimately since I am assuming residents of unincorporated areas largely would like to keep it that way, an involuntary City led annexation would have to clear a court approval and then require a vote in both the City and the annexed area to pass a simple majority, and if the annexed area does not pass it would then have to pass a 2/3 supermajority in a second attempt. Even if all of that passed it would be a years long process for the city to gain areas of low-density, poorly planned land and all of its infrastructural issues and irregularities. For example, a city that has ambitions of being a walkable and equitable place would now have large swaths of area with no sidewalks and abysmal land use it would have to contend with. 

Just as a reminder, Kansas City is 315 square miles, stretches into four different counties, and has farms within city limits (see below). I think the City of St. Louis could manage having different land uses, including traditional suburban ones.

[A scene from the northern end of Kansas City, MO:

]

LocalGovSTL wrote: ↑

4:09 PM - Apr 16

^^Also would have to make it past the St. Louis County Boundary Commission which is written into state law. Good luck with that.

Exactly. Getting the City back into the County as a standalone municipality would be the most significant event in the region's history, second only to the City's founding and the Great Divorce itself. City annexation of unincorporated parts of StL County sounds nice, and may be workable as step 20 in a multi-decade unification strategic plan, but its a complete non-starter in the current (or medium-term) political climate. Including it on day one would completely derail the whole initiative before it got off the ground. Nobody should even mentioned it outside of the confines of this forum.

Not sure if this video has been posted here before, but I came across it randomly, thought it told the story of our City well. 

From St. Louis Magazine:

"Clayton, several other county municipalities explore regional fire authority: 

Leaders in Clayton want to know whether there’s a better way to deliver fire and EMS services. Clayton’s City Council on Tuesday approved an agreement to join six neighboring municipalities in a regional feasibility study that will examine the potential creation of a fire authority. The partnership includes Clayton, University City, Webster Groves, Maplewood, Richmond Heights, Shrewsbury, and Olivette. The neighboring cities of Ladue and Brentwood were asked to join the effort, but declined. Clayton City Manager David Gipson said municipal fire departments across the region are facing rising costs and increasingly fragmented services, and leaders in each of the partner cities want to know whether a regional approach might help to streamline administration, standardize equipment and training, improve firefighter recruitment and retention, and allow for seamless response across municipal boundaries. The seven cities will split the cost of the study evenly, with an initial cap of $40,000 per municipality. A steering committee of elected officials, city managers, fire chiefs, finance directors, and union representatives is expected to begin meeting as soon as this summer. The study will evaluate whether a regional body would be practical, how it might be governed, and what it ultimately would cost."

framer wrote: ↑

4:57 PM - Jun 12

From St. Louis Magazine:

"Clayton, several other county municipalities explore regional fire authority: 

Leaders in Clayton want to know whether there’s a better way to deliver fire and EMS services. Clayton’s City Council on Tuesday approved an agreement to join six neighboring municipalities in a regional feasibility study that will examine the potential creation of a fire authority. The partnership includes Clayton, University City, Webster Groves, Maplewood, Richmond Heights, Shrewsbury, and Olivette. The neighboring cities of Ladue and Brentwood were asked to join the effort, but declined. Clayton City Manager David Gipson said municipal fire departments across the region are facing rising costs and increasingly fragmented services, and leaders in each of the partner cities want to know whether a regional approach might help to streamline administration, standardize equipment and training, improve firefighter recruitment and retention, and allow for seamless response across municipal boundaries. The seven cities will split the cost of the study evenly, with an initial cap of $40,000 per municipality. A steering committee of elected officials, city managers, fire chiefs, finance directors, and union representatives is expected to begin meeting as soon as this summer. The study will evaluate whether a regional body would be practical, how it might be governed, and what it ultimately would cost."

Of course the union loves this. The idea is not to save money, really. It's to free up some more scraps in order to raise firefighter salaries into the stratosphere to compete with the districts.

Unless the restriction on the supply of firefighters is lifted which means (a) removing the County Fire Academy training requirement, and (b) allowing EMS to operate separately, fire service in this metro area will become an albatross that bankrupt cities. It has already started (Hazelwood and Crestwood). This is ironic given that there are 90% or more fewer fires to fight than there was 50 years ago.

Disappointing, but not surprising, to hear none of the Democratic candidates for County Executive are in favor of a merger or re-entry. 

Particularly disappointed in Brian Williams after hearing him tell how if he were County Executive at the time the May 16th tornadoes, he would have been down at City Hall with the Mayor standing shoulder to shoulder. 

I get it, you're trying to win the highest office in the County but I want to be excited about something. The Knicks can end a 53-year championship drought and I'm still waiting, 150 years now, for the City and County to play ball.

Well this is a move in the right direction:  From the STLBJ 

Mayor Spencer says city-county merger deserves serious consideration

St. Louis Mayor Cara Spencer has opened the door to a city-county merger or major government restructuring. Spencer cites ongoing fiscal pressures, population loss, and fragmented public services as the primary drivers for exploring consolidation efforts between the city and St. Louis County. 

City-County Collaboration
While a full-scale reunification has historically struggled to find community support, Spencer has actively backed coordinated approaches to governance. Recently, she indicated support for consolidating emergency management agencies to better share resources during severe weather events.
St. Louis County Executive Sam Page has also expressed an openness to discussions regarding service integration and the city potentially becoming a municipality within the county. Local officials and residents have begun sharing input through public engagements hosted on platforms like St. Louis Public Radio. 

When can we start calling the combined city, plus unincorporated county, St. Louis? We should do what Berliners did when it was announced that the Berlin Wall would no longer be guarded. The people merged the city themselves and forced politicians to catch up and finish merging the governments.


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Area leaders again look at St. Louis city rejoining the county. 'Very real conversation'

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... b5d6c.html

STLcommenter wrote: ↑

4:43 PM - Jul 29

Area leaders again look at St. Louis city rejoining the county. 'Very real conversation'

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/gov ... b5d6c.html

I mean....good.  I think we're all for consolidation on some level but What is this. From the story:

"Loynd and Kelly emphasized they have no formal proposal or even a favored proposal yet, and said they are still working through what changes would look like in practice for governments and residents."

navel gazing nonsense for now.  LOL

Zimmerman at least discussed with Sarah Fenske how the region is stagnant and we need to add to the tax pool, even for the County's sake.  Paraphrased.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4e6vK3E2cHM

St. Louis County executive candidates aren’t ready to endorse city-county unification

In interviews conducted by Nine PBS and St. Louis Magazine for the Citizens’ Agenda, which focuses on five issues identified by voters as important to them, state Senator Brian Williams (D-University City), County Councilman Dennis Hancock (R-Fenton), and County Assessor Jake Zimmerman all gave tepid responses to the idea [of reunification], or offered major qualifications, instead of co-signing. (State Senator Angela Mosley, D-Florissant, who is also running in the Democratic primary, did not make herself available for an interview.)

https://www.stlmag.com/news/county-exec ... es-merger/

I feel like Zimmerman and Williams are trying to play center to avoid making it a voter issue ahead of the primary/elections. They’ll get the job, get more info, then be more willing to share a perspective.

Remember it took Sam Page leaving office to publicly support the idea.

^I agree though it does seem like Zimmerman is more open to the idea than Williams.

Group considering St. Louis city-county reunion issues call for formal study.

It’s appears that “United St. Louis” is the new group spearheading this effort. Does anyone have any background information on them yet?

Oh good, another initiative hiding behind a cute name unwilling to identify itself or funders. Did these people really learn nothing from Better Together? A lack of transparency does nothing but let journalist and readers fill in the blanks. 

Yeah, Better Together's gross mishandling of the reunification idea set the effort back by many years.

Per the article.

In the RFP, United St. Louis describes itself as an organization convening civic, business, and community leaders to “tackle the structural challenges that have constrained growth and opportunity in the region.”

Ryan Burke, a Democratic political consultant listed in the RFP as the contact for those looking to submit a proposal, would not elaborate beyond a written statement.

“A broad coalition of St. Louis residents would like to understand what a prosperous Saint Louis region could actually mean — and how we move forward together,” Burke said.

I’ve yet to hear about United St. Louis but would like to learn more about them.