Yeah, the density is low, although North City I think is part of the metro area with the lowest rates of car ownership so I think there's parts of it that could support BRT at least. An issue though is that I think the higher density parts of North City are along North Kingshighway, O'Fallon and Penrose, which are all far from Downtown; it's hard to imagine a north south route that focuses on the denser parts of South City and also those without going through some largely empty parts of the City.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2025While that makes sense if you’re considering effectiveness and development it does not survive equity criteria that local leaders are afraid to confront. Leaders would rather run two miles of useless rail than admit that North City (especially north Jefferson) has declined too far to justify rail.
Why not have separate street-like routes that feed into Metro Link?PeterXCV wrote:Yeah, the density is low, although North City I think is part of the metro area with the lowest rates of car ownership so I think there's parts of it that could support BRT at least. An issue though is that I think the higher density parts of North City are along North Kingshighway, O'Fallon and Penrose, which are all far from Downtown; it's hard to imagine a north south route that focuses on the denser parts of South City and also those without going through some largely empty parts of the City.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2025While that makes sense if you’re considering effectiveness and development it does not survive equity criteria that local leaders are afraid to confront. Leaders would rather run two miles of useless rail than admit that North City (especially north Jefferson) has declined too far to justify rail.
This is part of my issue though too. I can acknowledge that the Jefferson alignment was not necessarily an ideal world alignment. It misses some of the denser parts of North City and the station placement was pretty abysmal.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2025The incessant chase for Jefferson Avenue has distracted STL from achieving smaller wins outside of Cortex and Mid-America Airport. When leaders were brave enough to adjust the plan they never did so at a rate fast enough or transparently enough to keep up.
Want rail expansion in STL? Start with two miles. It’s already funded. Better question is are we sure that two miles should be Jefferson Ave?
If you want to axe it, I'm not inherently opposed. But the response should not be to downgrade to a $400 million glorified bus that still requires federal funding and may not even go to the county. Serious leaders would propose an alternative alignment and attempt to generate better regional cooperation for rail. For example, the UP subdivision that goes through South City or even the old Hodiamont tracks.
Even a KC-style streetcar line from Soulard through downtown through Columbus Square to Old North would be a better alternative, which I think kinda aligns with the idea of starting small with 2 miles.
An unfortunate reality for STL is that we don't have a long term regional plan and we certainly don't have regional funding. We have nothing like Pheonix's plan, Nashville's plan, Indianapolis' plan, or what Charlotte is voting on next week.
It's definitely possible to figure out an alignment that uses North Kingshighway ROW and Hodiamont tracks to get pretty close to Grand. Then they'd have to get creative.PeterXCV wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2025Yeah, the density is low, although North City I think is part of the metro area with the lowest rates of car ownership so I think there's parts of it that could support BRT at least. An issue though is that I think the higher density parts of North City are along North Kingshighway, O'Fallon and Penrose, which are all far from Downtown; it's hard to imagine a north south route that focuses on the denser parts of South City and also those without going through some largely empty parts of the City.addxb2 wrote: ↑Oct 29, 2025While that makes sense if you’re considering effectiveness and development it does not survive equity criteria that local leaders are afraid to confront. Leaders would rather run two miles of useless rail than admit that North City (especially north Jefferson) has declined too far to justify rail.
https://documents.house.mo.gov/billtrac ... 8H.01I.pdf
A pre-filled bill by a Kansas City republican would divorce the City of Kansas City from Jackson County. The bill calls for a commission to be formed to propose a plan. The plan has to be approved by a majority of the City and County residents. If not approved, the commission will revise the plan and submit it again. If rejected again, they'll propose a new plan. The bill requires they propose a new plan until it is approved by residents.
A pre-filled bill by a Kansas City republican would divorce the City of Kansas City from Jackson County. The bill calls for a commission to be formed to propose a plan. The plan has to be approved by a majority of the City and County residents. If not approved, the commission will revise the plan and submit it again. If rejected again, they'll propose a new plan. The bill requires they propose a new plan until it is approved by residents.
This would require voter approval which is never going to happen, so this is just a "messaging" bill by some disgruntled Republican in the House.
Chiefs dynasty over? Uh oh.
How many losing seasons until attendance in KC is bottom tier like the other teams?
Two losing seasons is all it will take for any Chiefs fandom in STL to die down.
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How many losing seasons until attendance in KC is bottom tier like the other teams?
Two losing seasons is all it will take for any Chiefs fandom in STL to die down.
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Maybe Chiefs tickets will get cheap so I can say I actually went to a game there. It’s great going to Royals games because a ticket’s like $5 for standing only. Parking is the killer.
Now the joke: how long until Taylor Swift and Kelce split and a new album is made?
Now the joke: how long until Taylor Swift and Kelce split and a new album is made?
Rumors swirling that Chiefs are close to a Kansas announcement. Again, best case scenario if you want to see NFL back in MO.
How?addxb2 wrote:Rumors swirling that Chiefs are close to a Kansas announcement. Again, best case scenario if you want to see NFL back in MO.
Missouri leaders won’t like having lost two teams in ten years after having prepped an appealing package. Missouri fans outside of KC will not follow the Chiefs across state lines. KCMO fans will but the vast majority of MO NFL fans will be unaffiliated, especially now that the Chiefs dynasty is RIP. Mahomes out, Reid retiring, Kelce/Swift retiring.ldai_phs wrote:How?addxb2 wrote:Rumors swirling that Chiefs are close to a Kansas announcement. Again, best case scenario if you want to see NFL back in MO.
MO leaders will be more willing to get involved in bringing a team back, ultimately to St. Louis. Missouri republican leaders are the best to negotiate that deal on behalf of STL.
I’m not saying it is likely. I’m saying it becomes more likely.
Missouri put more eggs into the retaining the Rams basket than they did the Chiefs and lost that battle too. The NFL isn’t going to expand anytime soon as once the Chiefs are re-homed I believe all of the small/medium sized market teams will be in “newish” long term leases.addxb2 wrote:Missouri leaders won’t like having lost two teams in ten years after having prepped an appealing package. Missouri fans outside of KC will not follow the Chiefs across state lines. KCMO fans will but the vast majority of MO NFL fans will be unaffiliated, especially now that the Chiefs dynasty is RIP.ldai_phs wrote:How?addxb2 wrote:Rumors swirling that Chiefs are close to a Kansas announcement. Again, best case scenario if you want to see NFL back in MO.
MO leaders will be more willing to get involved in bringing a team back, ultimately to St. Louis. Missouri republican leaders are the best to negotiate that deal on behalf of STL.
I’m not saying it is likely. I’m saying it becomes more likely.
I concur with that reality. Just saying, it’s far better for St. Louis to have a desperate Missouri when/if the opportunity does arise than a Missouri that is satisfied with what’s accomplished in KC.
Hypothetically, the Busch family and investors pull together a St. Charles County stadium proposal. Missouri will respond better than if Chiefs were still on I-70. This hypothetical (minus the family) is what I think would bring NFL back to STL.
Hypothetically, the Busch family and investors pull together a St. Charles County stadium proposal. Missouri will respond better than if Chiefs were still on I-70. This hypothetical (minus the family) is what I think would bring NFL back to STL.
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The rumor mill for both the Chiefs and Royals has come alive again because there's a deadline of 11:59pm on December 31st to agree to move across the State Line or the incentive package is closed. Local sports media figures, who made bold claims about the teams leaving for Kansas months ago, are the ones driving this again. We'll see if they're right this time or not.
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I don't see how a team in the faraway exurbs really does us much good. It doesn't put the arch in front of the camera. It doesn't bring tourists downtown. It doesn't fill hotel rooms. The stadium wouldn't be terribly useful when the team isn't playing one of its half dozen home games a year. It's about the last thing I would support. I'd rather see a team in East St. Louis, to be frank. Much rather. That would be a whale of a lot better for the region. Put it next to the Casino Queen and build them parking garages. Get the Illinois legislature to pitch in a little and the St. Louis business community a lot. Better not in Missouri at all than in St. Charles County. Let it do some real good where it's needed. That's worthy of government support.
Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Dec 19, 2025The rumor mill for both the Chiefs and Royals has come alive again because there's a deadline of 11:59pm on December 31st to agree to move across the State Line or the incentive package is closed. Local sports media figures, who made bold claims about the teams leaving for Kansas months ago, are the ones driving this again. We'll see if they're right this time or not.
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Ty Masterson is a snake, and I wouldn't believe a word he says. I think he's just giving the Royals (and the Chiefs) an extension on the 12/31 deadline without saying so.
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The first big confirmed pick up by Kansas from KCMO is Lockton’s world headquarters. They’re moving from the Plaza to a new development at 435 and State Line in Leawood in 2030.
Chiefs are going to Kansas. Missouri is without an NFL team and its largest region specifically is underserved.
The Missouri media market is still considered to be “served” by the Chiefs…addxb2 wrote:Chiefs are going to Kansas. Missouri is without an NFL team and its largest region specifically is underserved.
I just texted my father in Hannibal, Missouri and he sent a picture of him lowering his Chiefs flag yesterday with “guess this won’t be going back up”ldai_phs wrote:The Missouri media market is still considered to be “served” by the Chiefs…addxb2 wrote:Chiefs are going to Kansas. Missouri is without an NFL team and its largest region specifically is underserved.
I’m getting rid of my merchaddxb2 wrote:I just told my father in Hannibal, Missouri and he sent a picture of him lowering his Chiefs flag yesterday with “guess this won’t be going back up”ldai_phs wrote:The Missouri media market is still considered to be “served” by the Chiefs…addxb2 wrote:Chiefs are going to Kansas. Missouri is without an NFL team and its largest region specifically is underserved.
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Maybe it would just create more negative competition for downtown, but It is amazing to think about how different our region would be if Illinois cared 0.01% about metro east.
Amazing how much money KS is putting into their side of the metro.
Amazing how much money KS is putting into their side of the metro.
Illinois won’t fund the bears any further. Although I have brainstormed a world where Illinois negotiates two stadiums (1 for Chicago, 1 for STL) and a new team on behalf of STL. Won’t happen, but I’ve thought it.keepstlbrick wrote:Maybe it would just create more negative competition for downtown, but It is amazing to think about how different our region would be if Illinois cared 0.01% about metro east.
Amazing how much money KS is putting into their side of the metro.